LS3 Time- LS1 Grenaded at Road America :(
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Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
OK, The parts list looks OK, Didn't see what SunShell they used?
So, You have had it rebuilt 5 times.....Hopefully it's good now & you will not have to worry.
A little bit about 4L60E Planetaries, (Not trying to step on toes here!)
4-pinion Planets are plenty strong enough! They will handle what the rest of the trans will & more. 99% of Planet failures are a result of Poor Lubrication that has been an issue since 1982 when the 700R4 came out. GM has tried several stop-gap measures to correct this but none have been successful.
The 5-pinion is stronger, Their main focus with this update was for 1/2 ton Trucks with 6.0L's. Even though all LS2 cars got 5-pinion planets too.
All 6-Pinion Input(Front) Planets are for running Different 1st & 2nd gear ratios, 2.84 1st & 1.55 2nd V.S. 3.06 1st & 1.63 2nd. To make this possible the Input Sun Gear diameter had to be Increased, Therefore the Pinion gears had to be made smaller.....To add strength back in the planet...6 Pinion gears are used.
Sonnax also makes a similar Planet to PATC's, But can be rebuilt with hand tools at home, 2.84 Ratio Input Carrier Kit - 77284-K - Sonnax
So, You have had it rebuilt 5 times.....Hopefully it's good now & you will not have to worry.
A little bit about 4L60E Planetaries, (Not trying to step on toes here!)
4-pinion Planets are plenty strong enough! They will handle what the rest of the trans will & more. 99% of Planet failures are a result of Poor Lubrication that has been an issue since 1982 when the 700R4 came out. GM has tried several stop-gap measures to correct this but none have been successful.
The 5-pinion is stronger, Their main focus with this update was for 1/2 ton Trucks with 6.0L's. Even though all LS2 cars got 5-pinion planets too.
All 6-Pinion Input(Front) Planets are for running Different 1st & 2nd gear ratios, 2.84 1st & 1.55 2nd V.S. 3.06 1st & 1.63 2nd. To make this possible the Input Sun Gear diameter had to be Increased, Therefore the Pinion gears had to be made smaller.....To add strength back in the planet...6 Pinion gears are used.
Sonnax also makes a similar Planet to PATC's, But can be rebuilt with hand tools at home, 2.84 Ratio Input Carrier Kit - 77284-K - Sonnax
You say the list looks ok, but you did not say "great" -- are there any omissions you thought should be there? Looks like they missed that in the list, which was part of the blueprint build in 2013 as I recall -- The Beast sunshell. Well the first two were swap in swap outs with an already rebuilt unit -- no enhancements.
I was also told that the 5 pinion planets also help ensure the shaft is centered with obviously an additional assist over the 4. Hadn't heard the poor lube issue before, so thanks for that detail.
Interesting on the 6 planet setup -- learning new things all the time with you guys.
TSI Racing recommended against a bigger gear in the rear since there is so much gearing in the trans. But it looks like there is a way to change that with this 6 planet setup huh?
Last edited by libertyforall1776; Jun 23, 2015 at 08:38 PM.
In the Staging Lanes
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 75
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Both.
You say the list looks ok, but you did not say "great" -- are there any omissions you thought should be there? Looks like they missed that in the list, which was part of the blueprint build in 2013 as I recall -- The Beast sunshell. Well the first two were swap in swap outs with an already rebuilt unit -- no enhancements.
I was also told that the 5 pinion planets also help ensure the shaft is centered with obviously an additional assist over the 4. Hadn't heard the poor lube issue before, so thanks for that detail.
Interesting on the 6 planet setup -- learning new things all the time with you guys. TSI Racing recommended against a bigger gear in the rear since there is so much gearing in the trans. But it looks like there is a way to change that with this 6 planet setup huh?
You say the list looks ok, but you did not say "great" -- are there any omissions you thought should be there? Looks like they missed that in the list, which was part of the blueprint build in 2013 as I recall -- The Beast sunshell. Well the first two were swap in swap outs with an already rebuilt unit -- no enhancements.
I was also told that the 5 pinion planets also help ensure the shaft is centered with obviously an additional assist over the 4. Hadn't heard the poor lube issue before, so thanks for that detail.
Interesting on the 6 planet setup -- learning new things all the time with you guys.
TSI Racing recommended against a bigger gear in the rear since there is so much gearing in the trans. But it looks like there is a way to change that with this 6 planet setup huh?LOL....The parts list is Very vague, No shift kit/Hydraulic mods, Boost Valve size, Servo size (Probably a Vette Servo that came stock on your car), Input drum mods, TCC PWM enable valve mod & Plate hole sizes are not listed. Most builders feel this stuff is proprietary......But in all reality it's not.....It's purely ego driven. They use off the shelf stuff just like me. If they really did make ground breaking innovations, They would Patent it & sell the rights to the highest bidder.
When I build a unit I write down all mods on the shift kit directions, & is given to the customer with the Invoice, That way if they move, Or out of state, Out of warranty etc. They can give it to the trans builder & know exactly what was done.
The gear ratio changes with Input Planet is a great innovation! However it's just copying the Ford 4R70W ratio's.
Beast Sun Shell's are strong...About the only good thing I can say about them.
They are made in Taiwan, Heavy, & Not balanced. Some even have the "Bent" mod from the factory....They don't run "true" & have a wobble to them.....This coupled with their weight plays hell on the Sun Gear bushing, & Reaction Planet captured bearing.
The Sonnax smart shell is all I use on HP builds....Never had one break.
Thread Starter
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Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
Thanks, I am going to ask for a more comprehensive list of parts from my builder. I think he will be forthcoming.
I have yet to have "the Beast" break yet, but we shall see. In fact the OEM one never broke for me, but was replaced as part of the initial "blueprinted build". Think it's still worth replacing at this point?
I have to learn more, as I am not clear if there would be benefits to my new engine with this trans for the trans gear ratio changes.
I have yet to have "the Beast" break yet, but we shall see. In fact the OEM one never broke for me, but was replaced as part of the initial "blueprinted build". Think it's still worth replacing at this point?
I have to learn more, as I am not clear if there would be benefits to my new engine with this trans for the trans gear ratio changes.
LOL....The parts list is Very vague, No shift kit/Hydraulic mods, Boost Valve size, Servo size (Probably a Vette Servo that came stock on your car), Input drum mods, TCC PWM enable valve mod & Plate hole sizes are not listed. Most builders feel this stuff is proprietary......But in all reality it's not.....It's purely ego driven. They use off the shelf stuff just like me. If they really did make ground breaking innovations, They would Patent it & sell the rights to the highest bidder.
When I build a unit I write down all mods on the shift kit directions, & is given to the customer with the Invoice, That way if they move, Or out of state, Out of warranty etc. They can give it to the trans builder & know exactly what was done.
The gear ratio changes with Input Planet is a great innovation! However it's just copying the Ford 4R70W ratio's.
Beast Sun Shell's are strong...About the only good thing I can say about them.
They are made in Taiwan, Heavy, & Not balanced. Some even have the "Bent" mod from the factory....They don't run "true" & have a wobble to them.....This coupled with their weight plays hell on the Sun Gear bushing, & Reaction Planet captured bearing.
The Sonnax smart shell is all I use on HP builds....Never had one break.
Sonnax SmartShell® - Heavy Duty Reaction Shell Kit - YouTube
When I build a unit I write down all mods on the shift kit directions, & is given to the customer with the Invoice, That way if they move, Or out of state, Out of warranty etc. They can give it to the trans builder & know exactly what was done.
The gear ratio changes with Input Planet is a great innovation! However it's just copying the Ford 4R70W ratio's.
Beast Sun Shell's are strong...About the only good thing I can say about them.
They are made in Taiwan, Heavy, & Not balanced. Some even have the "Bent" mod from the factory....They don't run "true" & have a wobble to them.....This coupled with their weight plays hell on the Sun Gear bushing, & Reaction Planet captured bearing.
The Sonnax smart shell is all I use on HP builds....Never had one break.
Sonnax SmartShell® - Heavy Duty Reaction Shell Kit - YouTube
Thread Starter
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Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
I suspect you are skeptical of this offering then?! 
Sonnax Smart Shell used in 1000 HP 4L60E - LS1TECH
Sonnax Smart Shell used in 1000 HP 4L60E - LS1TECH
In the Staging Lanes
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 75
From: Fort Worth, Texas
I suspect you are skeptical of this offering then?!
Sonnax Smart Shell used in 1000 HP 4L60E - LS1TECH
Sonnax Smart Shell used in 1000 HP 4L60E - LS1TECH
You would be correct, It wouldn't last long at 1000 HP.
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Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
FINALLY got the engine dyno chart from TMS. On the 6th Gen Camaro the HP AND TQ is 455, but mine has a big gap between HP & TQ — seems like that might indicate a not quite ideal combo of parts? Or can anyone shed more light on why the two split off like that?
On the 6th Gen Camaro the HP AND TQ is 455, but mine has a big gap between HP & TQ — seems like that might indicate a not quite ideal combo of parts? Or can anyone shed more light on why the two split off like that?
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October 2009 ROTM
October 2009 ROTM
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I don't know the LSX motors but I did Dyno a lot of circle track cars back in the day. I think those Torque and HP curve look good. In fact they look way more streetable then what I use to seeing. Is that pump gas?
Do you get a copy of the tune they used? You have some limitation on what you can change on the curve due to Heads and Cam and to some extent intake but you can do a lot to tweak the curve with timing and fuel maping.
Do you get a copy of the tune they used? You have some limitation on what you can change on the curve due to Heads and Cam and to some extent intake but you can do a lot to tweak the curve with timing and fuel maping.
