[8D] wow chiltons and haynes now theres some bibles for the educated technician. seen any of those on the dealerships shelves?? just checked the factory manual for my 95 guess what ?? no mention anywhere of checking timing under run on diagnostics. Maybe instead of telling me how much i dont know tell us in detail what it is that you know about the point your mistakenly trying to prove. Im more than willing to explain to those that ask and put into words what my theories are, how about you???? so you rely on what you find on the internet and take that as gospel??? the world was flat once too, theres even pictures. Shoot, sasquatch and the loch ness monster and the little green men even might like to see your theories in print as well. come on humor us!!![]

 

damn if this isnt fun!!!! come on Z28 PETE chime in and tell us what u think!!

 

Believe me, I know it's because of the way I wired it. I picked up a single electric fan at a swap meet and did a quick swap out of the belt driven fan and installed the electric one. That was two years ago and I haven't gotten around to refining the wiring yet. I now have a slick dual fan, relay powered, thermostat controlled set up waiting to go in it's place. And yes, the way I wired it and the run on condition it causes is part of the reason why I mentioned it here in the first place, for others to read and learn.

 

I got an idea Kurt. I am going to see if you can figure out why timing being off can cause run-on. All this is going to take is a yes or no, true or false answer. None of your long winded nonsense. You will only keep confusing yourself. If you answer my yes or no questions any other way then you must not want to hear the truth and I will not continue with my efforts.Can you at least understand that.

Question 1: Can ignition timing, either to far advance or retarded, create eccessive heat?
Yes or No

 

Come on Kurt what are you doing? looking up the answer?
Oh and guess what. We are not talking about a 95 here. How would you check timing on that.

 

[&:] why must you always defer to me you cant seem to explain a thing. ive posted all my theories on this thread. I also think you answered your own misinformed opinion with your last post. timing is timing new or old it still functions exactly the same some are more adjustable than others im willing to tell you when im looking something up and unlike you ill put it into print, im sure you couldnt possibly know any techs who look up suff in the manual or alldata cause you already know it all (something i will never pretend to do). while your question leaves a few variables open ill go with no, as the energy or calories contained in each drop of fuel is the same regardless of where it goes or advance or retard of the engine (are we talking about heat or timing here?) if you let it heat up your headers instead of drive your pistons thats your problem(once again talking about a running engine here) and ive checked this one too and nope red hot headers are NOT a cause of run on or dieseling you really do avoid explaining your own theories dont you, could be due to ignorance of the subject matter, no?? long winded nonsense?? another intelligent rebuttal from your corner, come on its so simple EXPLAIN YOURSELF please dont come up with another question just tell us how it all works and well be done

 

ive gone to great lengths to explain why timing is not a cause of run right here in this thread, now lets hear your side as all youve done is post a link to another person who thinks the same as you and didnt explain anything either

 

I asked for no more than a simple answer and you can not even do that right. You have some issues Kurt.

Spark timing advanced too far can cause pinging and detonation, both indications of firing too far before top dead center. Here the combustion pressure is trying to push the piston down before it reaches the top of the stroke, trying to make the engine run backwards, fighting the forward motion, wasting energy (and fuel), and generating excess heat from the wasted energy.

Spark timing retarded to far will cause late combustion, losing the opportunity to take advantage of the most efficient part of the power stroke, at the top where the highest pressures occur. If the timing is just a little late the result is a slight loss of power and a little dip in fuel economy. But the fuel IS being burned, and the heat is going somewhere. If it doesn't go into propulsion, it goes off as excess heat. The extra heat may go into the cooling system (high water temperature), or may cause hot spots in the combustion chamber. In severely retarded timing cases and at high engine speeds, the last of the combustion may occur as the gases are exiting the engine, causing overheating of the exhaust valves, exhaust manifold, catalytic converter (not MGA), etc, all very bad news.

If you take what is in those two paragraphs as true then that would make the answer to my question yes. Though I am sure you are going to read them and say its all wrong. But since it is not wrong and timing being off can end up making excessive heat then heat becomes the ignition source. Asheat ignites what fuel is left in the combustion chambers it keeps the engine turning and as the engine is turning it is still drawing fuel left in the carb. Air is also going in of course. (some carbs, I had one on another car of mine, have a solenoid to shut the fuel flow off to eliminate run-on). Now as fuel continues to ignite from the heat and it continues to draw from the carb it can also be operating a mechanical fuel pump so it will keep feeding fuel into the float bowl. And the ignition keeps the heatgoing.
I would not doubt that you are smart enough to know that ignition timing being off can create too much heat. But I bet you figured it out after you opened your mouth (so to speak) and are not big enough to admit it.

 

Ok well that two of us. Where is your back up to why timing is not? I can't seem to do a search and find anything saying its not. But I can find more that say timing can be the cause.[sm=loser.gif]

 

[>:] mike ive asked several times for you to explain, as you understand it, the theory you are defending. simply copying and repeating the section of the link you are using as your supporting material does nothing to tell us what you understand about your theory. as a direct quote from your own evidence" In severely retarded timing cases and at high engine speeds, the last of the combustion may occur as the gases are exiting the engine, causing overheating of the exhaust valves," lets look at this passage alone, right in the first couple words, severely retarded and HIGH engine speeds--not conditions that we see at idle just before shut off and if it is severely retarded will it even run at idle?? most likely not. Now if you would like to take"causing overheating of the exhaust valves,"to mean they become an ignition source by some portion of the valve glowing red hot well then you have a valve problem and normal combustion can and does do the same thing when we have defective parts(here again bad parts are the cause not timing) the sentence is about heat damage in the exhaust stream and nothing else.The sentence before that does mention "hot spots" but these occur in a good running, well tuned engine (casting flash, carbon deposit, sharp edges) again these would be the cause of dieseling not the timing
"If you take what is in those two paragraphs as true," you might as the theory is there and is not incorrect in stating that more of the heat energy is tranfered into the exhaust stream but does nothing to show a correlation. Well again just because somebody posted it does that prove it??? i know more than one person thought the world was flat too, were all of them right?? So yes i have read it all and agree with this gurus effects of advance and retard but the only part of these paragraphs that could even closely be related to timing is the mention of hot spots which would be there and occur under normal conditions anyway, timing is not placing the carbon deposits, casting flash and sharp edges into the cylinder, ther're already there. Timing doesnt place fuel there either. The highest temperatures are in the combustion chamber so how is sending some of that heat and wasted peak temperatures into the exhaust from retarded timing gonna cause EXCESS heat ?? Excess heat in the exhaust yes, and remember theres only so much heat in a drop of gas so if you put some in the exhaust you have then removed or lowered that which is in the cylinder. Quit regurgitating and copying information and antiquated thinking and use a little automotive science as you know it to prove how this is possible.

As i stated before this section of some guys posting does absolutely nothing to correlate timing and run on, the other sections of it seem more pertinent and on point