3.4 vs 3.8?
September 2011 ROTM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,402
From: Missouri
ROTM Winner's Club
I'm glad we settled that lol. They're not bad if you haven't driven a 3.8 or a 5.7. They actually seem fast if you haven't driven a 3.8. I've outran alot of cars with mine but I wanna be able to stomp on other Camaro's and my 3.4 isn't cutting it. I mean honestly you can take out a ton of 4 cylinder cars but when it comes to racing other v6 cars, you're toast lol. Although the 5-speeds get a hella good jump! I think the 3.4 puts about 125hp to the wheels and the 3.8 puts about 165hp to the wheels.
Last edited by Chaotic94; Sep 19, 2010 at 01:00 AM.
Overdrive Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,354
From: Spanaway, WA
My Sarah is a bone stock '99 3.8L, and I do mean bone stock... factory exhaust manifolds even. I think the only thing that has been modded on my car is the stereo and the K&N drop in filter. OK that being said, my friend has a not so stock (exhaust) '95 3.4L. His car has a decient sound to it, A/C delete, High flow exhaust (cat back with dual outs and a quality welded muff but not sure if it is magnaflow or flowmaster). His car runs great and it appears to have power... until we hit the green and I pull away from him like he is not even trying. his car Loud and raspy, my car... well quiet and, well quiet but pulling away from him easy.
Now this is nothing compaired to how easy my Wife's Diamond pulls away from me... but that is the LS1 for you too.
If you like the wedge nose then look for a 96-97, they will all have 3.8L V6s. The 97 has the updated dash the 96 has the older dash. The 98-02 are all the same basicly with the 99+ having throttle by wire some 98's had the TBW also but most were cable. Me personally I like the catfish nose the best.
Massey
Now this is nothing compaired to how easy my Wife's Diamond pulls away from me... but that is the LS1 for you too.
If you like the wedge nose then look for a 96-97, they will all have 3.8L V6s. The 97 has the updated dash the 96 has the older dash. The 98-02 are all the same basicly with the 99+ having throttle by wire some 98's had the TBW also but most were cable. Me personally I like the catfish nose the best.
Massey
Overdrive Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,354
From: Spanaway, WA
Oh and for the mileage question you asked...
The 3.8L engine has better flow characteristics, that allow it to get better HP and mileage at the same time. The engine has been in production through many different forms since the late 60's and for a while it was even owned by Jeep. GM repurchased the tooling and really went to town on this engine. It has been listed as one of the top 5 best engines ever. The computer profile for this engine is just as complex as the profile for the Z06 Corvette, allowing the little engine to produce 200HP and still get 30mpg. My car gets about 31 hwy miles and about 24 in town. I can drive about 350-400 miles on a tank of gas and I am mainly city driving I dont get on the freeway much right now.
Massey
The 3.8L engine has better flow characteristics, that allow it to get better HP and mileage at the same time. The engine has been in production through many different forms since the late 60's and for a while it was even owned by Jeep. GM repurchased the tooling and really went to town on this engine. It has been listed as one of the top 5 best engines ever. The computer profile for this engine is just as complex as the profile for the Z06 Corvette, allowing the little engine to produce 200HP and still get 30mpg. My car gets about 31 hwy miles and about 24 in town. I can drive about 350-400 miles on a tank of gas and I am mainly city driving I dont get on the freeway much right now.
Massey
Matt, I can add a more info since I've been involved with V6 engines since the early 80s.
The 3.4 and the 3.8 are completely different engines so asking why a bigger engine gets better mileage than a smaller one isn't relevant.
In a Camaro, the 3.4 is a 60 degree V6 with no balance shaft and the 3.8 is a 90 degree V6 *with* a balance shaft. That balance shaft thing is important because *all* V6 engines have an inherent imbalance since they're, well, V6 engines. Inline 4s have characteristics that cripple them, too, but balance shafts also smooth them out.
The 3.4 started life as a 2.8 back in the early 80s, I think. Chevy Citation, Pontiac Phoenix, Olds Omega in front drive and S10 pickup (and 3rd generation Camaro) in rear drive. Later the Pontiac Fiero in rear engine rear drive.
As Massey says, the 3.8 is even older. Much older. The 3.8 was first made by chopping 2 cylinders off a small *aluminum block* Buick V8 that GM put in some mid-size cars in the early 60s. Buick used the 3.8 (called the 231) in the mid-60s for awhile but then sold the tooling to Jeep, who used it in their Commander and other vehicles. GM bought the tooling back from Jeep in the early 70s and put the 231 in the new Olds Starfire, Chevy Monza, and Buick Skyhawk. The 3.8 was improved for 1977 with split crank throws to smooth it out a little.
It was used in the front drive Buick Riviera in the late 70s/early 80s. By the mid-80s it was in all the Olds Ninety-Eights, Delta 88s, Buick LeSabre and Park Avenues, and Pontiac Bonnevilles. There were a lot of improvements for 1986 with the serpentine belt, revised oil pump setup, and distributorless ignition. Sequential injection came in 1987.
A big improvment came in 1988 with the addition of a balance shaft, equal bore spacing, roller lifters, and more. By then the 3.8 (now called the 3800) looked like a designed-from-scratch V6 instead of a heavily modified antique, lopped-off V8. Further refinements came on the 3800 Series II in 1996 and later the Series III.
I've owned several cars with the 3.8, the latest being a 97 LeSabre, and it's a good engine. It has been repeatedly ranked as one of the best engines ever built. It has some gasket issues (intake manifold), but is very smooth and powerful. I haven't driven a Camaro with the 3.8 but I'll bet it's nice.
As for the 3.4, I'm intimately familiar with that engine having just rebuilt one in my 94 Camaro. A lot of people knock the 3.4 but mine made it to 130k miles with poor maintenance and some serious abuse. I see Camaros in the junkyard with 150k, 180k, and 200k+ miles on the 3.4 so how bad can they be?
With just over 1000 miles on my fresh 3.4 I have to say that I'm impressed. Rated at 160hp, the 3.4 is more than enough to make the Camaro zippy. Surprisingly zippy. With a front seat adult passenger and 2 kids in the back it takes off just fine, even with the a/c running. Mine is an automatic and I bet the 5-speed is even more fun. My only real criticism of the 3.4 is that it is noticeably raspy.
I think you *should* go for a 4th Generation with the 3.8 (3800) because it is a better powerplant than the 3.4. But don't dismiss a 3.4 if one comes along with the right equipment (like t-tops) and at a good price. That red one in Omaha looks like a nice one and it looks just like my 94.
The 3.4 and the 3.8 are completely different engines so asking why a bigger engine gets better mileage than a smaller one isn't relevant.
In a Camaro, the 3.4 is a 60 degree V6 with no balance shaft and the 3.8 is a 90 degree V6 *with* a balance shaft. That balance shaft thing is important because *all* V6 engines have an inherent imbalance since they're, well, V6 engines. Inline 4s have characteristics that cripple them, too, but balance shafts also smooth them out.
The 3.4 started life as a 2.8 back in the early 80s, I think. Chevy Citation, Pontiac Phoenix, Olds Omega in front drive and S10 pickup (and 3rd generation Camaro) in rear drive. Later the Pontiac Fiero in rear engine rear drive.
As Massey says, the 3.8 is even older. Much older. The 3.8 was first made by chopping 2 cylinders off a small *aluminum block* Buick V8 that GM put in some mid-size cars in the early 60s. Buick used the 3.8 (called the 231) in the mid-60s for awhile but then sold the tooling to Jeep, who used it in their Commander and other vehicles. GM bought the tooling back from Jeep in the early 70s and put the 231 in the new Olds Starfire, Chevy Monza, and Buick Skyhawk. The 3.8 was improved for 1977 with split crank throws to smooth it out a little.
It was used in the front drive Buick Riviera in the late 70s/early 80s. By the mid-80s it was in all the Olds Ninety-Eights, Delta 88s, Buick LeSabre and Park Avenues, and Pontiac Bonnevilles. There were a lot of improvements for 1986 with the serpentine belt, revised oil pump setup, and distributorless ignition. Sequential injection came in 1987.
A big improvment came in 1988 with the addition of a balance shaft, equal bore spacing, roller lifters, and more. By then the 3.8 (now called the 3800) looked like a designed-from-scratch V6 instead of a heavily modified antique, lopped-off V8. Further refinements came on the 3800 Series II in 1996 and later the Series III.
I've owned several cars with the 3.8, the latest being a 97 LeSabre, and it's a good engine. It has been repeatedly ranked as one of the best engines ever built. It has some gasket issues (intake manifold), but is very smooth and powerful. I haven't driven a Camaro with the 3.8 but I'll bet it's nice.
As for the 3.4, I'm intimately familiar with that engine having just rebuilt one in my 94 Camaro. A lot of people knock the 3.4 but mine made it to 130k miles with poor maintenance and some serious abuse. I see Camaros in the junkyard with 150k, 180k, and 200k+ miles on the 3.4 so how bad can they be?
With just over 1000 miles on my fresh 3.4 I have to say that I'm impressed. Rated at 160hp, the 3.4 is more than enough to make the Camaro zippy. Surprisingly zippy. With a front seat adult passenger and 2 kids in the back it takes off just fine, even with the a/c running. Mine is an automatic and I bet the 5-speed is even more fun. My only real criticism of the 3.4 is that it is noticeably raspy.
I think you *should* go for a 4th Generation with the 3.8 (3800) because it is a better powerplant than the 3.4. But don't dismiss a 3.4 if one comes along with the right equipment (like t-tops) and at a good price. That red one in Omaha looks like a nice one and it looks just like my 94.
Last edited by 1augapfel; Sep 21, 2010 at 03:43 AM.
