quick trans question
#1
01-03-2012, 12:08 PM
quick trans question
so i was reading on ls1tech that the difference between the 94 and 95 4l60e is the valve body... so cant i just swap my 94 valve body into a 95 transmission (i CANT find a 94 trans with the proper wiring to save my life but 95s are everywhere)
#2
01-03-2012, 01:30 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tokeland, Washington
Posts: 21,672
i would call a couple trans shops and see what they can do. you may be able to get them to convert the wiring and such from the 94 to the 95 trans. at least get an idea of cost. check around and see if there are any 93 4l60e trans around and see if they fit. i think vette used em. camaro is 4l60/700r4 so they wont work.
#3
01-10-2012, 12:24 PM
so i called this guy in cali (hes a 700r4 and 4L60E specialized tech) and he told me i needed to put an iso valve in the trans (95) and that will eliminate the PWM valve or something (he was talking very technical i struggled to understand him) now i found this
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...-07775404k.htm
and the pdf for it
http://www.sonnax.com/system/instruc...754-04K-IN.pdf
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...-07775404k.htm
and the pdf for it
http://www.sonnax.com/system/instruc...754-04K-IN.pdf
Last edited by BasicConcepts; 01-10-2012 at 12:32 PM.
#4
01-10-2012, 01:51 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The 'Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 18,306
Don't you just love when people use acronyms when you ask a technical question?
This will help explain what all that PWM, Iso, P1870 pertaining to the TCC is all about. http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/062006_07.pdf
This will help explain what all that PWM, Iso, P1870 pertaining to the TCC is all about. http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/062006_07.pdf
#5
01-10-2012, 04:52 PM
ok so heres some stuff i figured out
To put a ’95 4L60E into a ’94 car: No mechanical mods required. The TCC valve mod must be performed to remove the PWM function. The trans will operate normally without the mod but TCC lockup will not work, so highway and cruising gas mileage will suffer and more heat will be produced in the transmission.
To put a ’96 4L60E into a ’94 car: The ’94 tailshaft housing and VSS must be installed on the ’96 4L60E before the trans can be bolted into the car. The TCC mod must be performed. The trans will operate normally without the TCC mod but TCC lockup will not work, so highway and cruising gas mileage will suffer and more heat will be produced in the transmission.
TCC Mod: Leave the PWM solenoid unplugged but installed. On the valve directly to the right of the PWM solenoid – push that valve all the way towards the outside of the valvebody, and stake it into place. That’ll lock keep the valve acted on by the PWM in the full-open position and it’ll function like a '94 style lockup. No PCM reprogramming required.
Putting a '95-96 trans in a '94?
This is the 4L60E TCC modification first done back in the mid-late 1990s which consists of staking the TCC regulated apply valve in the full-open position, eliminating the PWM function. The mod is reversible if you stake carefully.
Why? In 1995, GM added a second control solenoid to the 4L60E Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) to allow them to better control the way the torque converter clutch lockup felt. The original on-off solenoid still enables lockup, and the new solenoid (the "apply" solenoid) controls a slide valve in the valvebody via "pulse-width modulation" (PWM)- what that means is that the solenoid is turned on and off rapidly but the time "on" and the time "off" are varied like a fuel injector (like "duty cycle") to control the amount of fluid released by the solenoid, and this controls lockup. Smooth shifts are easier on the drivetrain with little loss in performance.
That said, the valvebody valve acted upon by the PWM solenoid tended to wear the bore and cause problems. GM techs figured out that if the valve was staked in the full-open position, the code would go away. The downside of that fix was that now the torque converter becomes pressurized with transmission line pressure, which can go as high as 250psi at times. In a properly functioning 4L60E, lockup pressure should really be around 100psi or so. Given the size of the torque converter, this much higher pressure can physically distort the case of the converter and cause other problems.
Sonnax developed a repair kit for this, which includes improved valves and a special sleeve which not only eliminates future bore wear, but improves the valve structure themselves. It is P/N 77754 (pay attention as there are suffixes for the different aspects of this fix)).
One thing to note is that you will have to remove the valvebody and also purchase a reamer tool which is not cheap (~$85). You can always sell this tool on ebay once your done, or charge four friends $20 each and fix theirs while you're at it, then you're back to zero.
Finally, if you're putting a '95 or '96 transmission in a '94 vehicle, the '94 electrical system doesn't have provisions to control the PWM solenoid and so you will have no lockup at all if you leave it as-is.
NOTE: If you have installed a TransGo HD2 kit into this transmission, you don't need to do this mod. The Transgo kit converts the setup to an on-off setup rather than a modulated setup. You can also make your own spring or spacer that locks the valve at full open, but staking is easier and quicker.
and finally the trans go HD2 shift kit
TransGo Performance 4L60E-HD2 - TransGo Performance Shift Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com
if you guys think this is all cool i got a 95 trans lined up 150$ guy bought it for his 01 TA and realized it wont work says its got 120k on it
To put a ’95 4L60E into a ’94 car: No mechanical mods required. The TCC valve mod must be performed to remove the PWM function. The trans will operate normally without the mod but TCC lockup will not work, so highway and cruising gas mileage will suffer and more heat will be produced in the transmission.
To put a ’96 4L60E into a ’94 car: The ’94 tailshaft housing and VSS must be installed on the ’96 4L60E before the trans can be bolted into the car. The TCC mod must be performed. The trans will operate normally without the TCC mod but TCC lockup will not work, so highway and cruising gas mileage will suffer and more heat will be produced in the transmission.
TCC Mod: Leave the PWM solenoid unplugged but installed. On the valve directly to the right of the PWM solenoid – push that valve all the way towards the outside of the valvebody, and stake it into place. That’ll lock keep the valve acted on by the PWM in the full-open position and it’ll function like a '94 style lockup. No PCM reprogramming required.
Putting a '95-96 trans in a '94?
This is the 4L60E TCC modification first done back in the mid-late 1990s which consists of staking the TCC regulated apply valve in the full-open position, eliminating the PWM function. The mod is reversible if you stake carefully.
Why? In 1995, GM added a second control solenoid to the 4L60E Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) to allow them to better control the way the torque converter clutch lockup felt. The original on-off solenoid still enables lockup, and the new solenoid (the "apply" solenoid) controls a slide valve in the valvebody via "pulse-width modulation" (PWM)- what that means is that the solenoid is turned on and off rapidly but the time "on" and the time "off" are varied like a fuel injector (like "duty cycle") to control the amount of fluid released by the solenoid, and this controls lockup. Smooth shifts are easier on the drivetrain with little loss in performance.
That said, the valvebody valve acted upon by the PWM solenoid tended to wear the bore and cause problems. GM techs figured out that if the valve was staked in the full-open position, the code would go away. The downside of that fix was that now the torque converter becomes pressurized with transmission line pressure, which can go as high as 250psi at times. In a properly functioning 4L60E, lockup pressure should really be around 100psi or so. Given the size of the torque converter, this much higher pressure can physically distort the case of the converter and cause other problems.
Sonnax developed a repair kit for this, which includes improved valves and a special sleeve which not only eliminates future bore wear, but improves the valve structure themselves. It is P/N 77754 (pay attention as there are suffixes for the different aspects of this fix)).
One thing to note is that you will have to remove the valvebody and also purchase a reamer tool which is not cheap (~$85). You can always sell this tool on ebay once your done, or charge four friends $20 each and fix theirs while you're at it, then you're back to zero.
Finally, if you're putting a '95 or '96 transmission in a '94 vehicle, the '94 electrical system doesn't have provisions to control the PWM solenoid and so you will have no lockup at all if you leave it as-is.
NOTE: If you have installed a TransGo HD2 kit into this transmission, you don't need to do this mod. The Transgo kit converts the setup to an on-off setup rather than a modulated setup. You can also make your own spring or spacer that locks the valve at full open, but staking is easier and quicker.
and finally the trans go HD2 shift kit
TransGo Performance 4L60E-HD2 - TransGo Performance Shift Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com
if you guys think this is all cool i got a 95 trans lined up 150$ guy bought it for his 01 TA and realized it wont work says its got 120k on it
Last edited by BasicConcepts; 01-10-2012 at 04:56 PM.
#7
01-10-2012, 05:48 PM
i was going to suggest that... actually i copied that off another forum impalassforums.com theres A LOT of good info there
#8
01-10-2012, 05:53 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The 'Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 18,306
B.C., is this all info you've gathered together and put in your own words, or copied and pasted from sites? Some of it looks familiar. If you want to do a specific how-to, go ahead, and add pics of your tranny swap/valve body modification if you want too. Then we can put it in the how-to section.
I want to add one thing about the lockup function. You absolutely do not want to leave it to where the t.c. doesn't lock up. An unlocked lockup converter slips more than a regular non-locking t.c. does, and that spells great heat build up and premature burn up of the trans.
EDIT: lol, I see the source question was answered.
I want to add one thing about the lockup function. You absolutely do not want to leave it to where the t.c. doesn't lock up. An unlocked lockup converter slips more than a regular non-locking t.c. does, and that spells great heat build up and premature burn up of the trans.
EDIT: lol, I see the source question was answered.
#9
01-10-2012, 06:05 PM
B.C., is this all info you've gathered together and put in your own words, or copied and pasted from sites? Some of it looks familiar. If you want to do a specific how-to, go ahead, and add pics of your tranny swap/valve body modification if you want too. Then we can put it in the how-to section.
I want to add one thing about the lockup function. You absolutely do not want to leave it to where the t.c. doesn't lock up. An unlocked lockup converter slips more than a regular non-locking t.c. does, and that spells great heat build up and premature burn up of the trans.
EDIT: lol, I see the source question was answered.
I want to add one thing about the lockup function. You absolutely do not want to leave it to where the t.c. doesn't lock up. An unlocked lockup converter slips more than a regular non-locking t.c. does, and that spells great heat build up and premature burn up of the trans.
EDIT: lol, I see the source question was answered.
#10
01-10-2012, 06:12 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The 'Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 18,306
I know what the valve kit does. I only stressed that point because of what you said here: "To put a ’95 4L60E into a ’94 car: No mechanical mods required. The TCC valve mod must be performed to remove the PWM function. The trans will operate normally without the mod but TCC lockup will not work, so highway and cruising gas mileage will suffer and more heat will be produced in the transmission".
That's not an option one should consider if tranny life is important, which it is to most people.
That's not an option one should consider if tranny life is important, which it is to most people.