No Spark
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October 2009 ROTM
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I do not have a manual but 40 sounds right. The engine should at least try to start. Does the Pressure drop slightly when you try to start it? If it does not that could indicate the injectors are not opening. Can the motor run on choke cleaner?
Next you need to verify you have ground and power going to the injectors. Since the motor is not trying to start it still could be a lot of different things. The other thing you could do is pull a plug and see if it fuel fowled. If the injector is firing and the car is not starting they should be raw fuel on the plug. You can also pull one of the injector point it in a container and see if it sprays. I use the bottom half of a quart of oil.
If you have fuel and spark it almost always tries to start unless something major is going on. The order I check things,
The engine is completely flooded. (doubtful since you already changed plugs but if an injector is stuck open maybe)
Plugged exhaust
Compression (you need 90 PSI to create the expansion)
Last is timing chain jump. (this will normally try to start or get you a back fire, but I guess it could fail just right so nothing happened)
I will admit the plugged exhaust stumped for a little while the first time I ran into it. You can just pop out a o2 sensor and it should start.
Next you need to verify you have ground and power going to the injectors. Since the motor is not trying to start it still could be a lot of different things. The other thing you could do is pull a plug and see if it fuel fowled. If the injector is firing and the car is not starting they should be raw fuel on the plug. You can also pull one of the injector point it in a container and see if it sprays. I use the bottom half of a quart of oil.
If you have fuel and spark it almost always tries to start unless something major is going on. The order I check things,
The engine is completely flooded. (doubtful since you already changed plugs but if an injector is stuck open maybe)
Plugged exhaust
Compression (you need 90 PSI to create the expansion)
Last is timing chain jump. (this will normally try to start or get you a back fire, but I guess it could fail just right so nothing happened)
I will admit the plugged exhaust stumped for a little while the first time I ran into it. You can just pop out a o2 sensor and it should start.
Last edited by Gorn; Jul 20, 2022 at 02:23 PM.
Hello
so here’s an update. I have spark, I have fuel. The injectors will not open.
security light is off. There is twelve volts to each of the pink wires at the injector harness plug from the ecm. The green and the blue wires that lead into the injector harness from the ECM are dead at start and crank. I’m having a hard time checking continuity between those wires back to the ecm.
this is a 3.1 v6, any suggestions would be great
so here’s an update. I have spark, I have fuel. The injectors will not open.
security light is off. There is twelve volts to each of the pink wires at the injector harness plug from the ecm. The green and the blue wires that lead into the injector harness from the ECM are dead at start and crank. I’m having a hard time checking continuity between those wires back to the ecm.
this is a 3.1 v6, any suggestions would be great
Fourth Generation Moderator
October 2009 ROTM
October 2009 ROTM
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You need a manual to know what wires to check. This first think I would do is to check the ECM with a GM style scan tool. Make sure the ECM is seeing that the engine is rotating. It could just be a bad crank sensor. Or it could be a fried ECM. Just to make sure you are going down the right path you can verify your finding. You car should start on starting fluid or carb cleaner sprayed into the throttle body.
Hello gorn, yes the car will run off starting fluid and I have an obd1 scanner which told me the MAP sejsor was bad along with the VATS. I have replaced the MAP And successfully bypassed the VATS. the error code 46 is no longer present after I used a resistor to bypass the VATS. and still no start , just cranks and cranks
I have voltage to both the pink and the pink and black wire into the injector harness but no flicker on the blue and the green wire in that same harness. I’m thinking that is my problem
I have voltage to both the pink and the pink and black wire into the injector harness but no flicker on the blue and the green wire in that same harness. I’m thinking that is my problem
Fourth Generation Moderator
October 2009 ROTM
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Like I said in my other post the scanner should see a RPM value in the scan tool. My mistake the 91 does not have a crank sensor it must use the distributor, Once you know that the ECM is seeing the motor turning the scan tool should have a place that says if the security system is enabled. If it is enabled then something is wrong with the bypass or the wiring. After that you are looking at ECM issues or wiring from the ECM to the injectors. In my history the ECM will have a code saved for ECM failure like this but it possible it does not.
Last edited by Gorn; Aug 17, 2022 at 09:26 AM.
Got it , yes I was getting a 46 error code which pointed to my VATS bypass. I have since found and installed the correct resistor and now the scanner is only seeing code 12 which is a good thing. There must be an open in the wiring to the ecm which won’t then tell the injectors to open..:: maybe?
Well here’s the latest. SHE RUNS!!!
I loaded up the tank with as much fuel as I had and I noticed that INJ-1 and INJ-2 had good fuses In the block but they were 20 and 25amp fuses. The fuse block called for each of those circuits to have 10amp fuses. I swapped out the 20 and 25 with tens and low and behold she fired up. So here’s my summary. I was having a crank with no start
i changed the following parts
fuel filter
fuel pressure regulator
fuel injectors
plugs
wires
distributor
Ignition coil
fuel injector harness
several wires and hoses.
man’s it now runs, it runs rough but it is definitely a huge step in the right direction !
I do appreciate all the responses and the help on this issue
thank you all
I loaded up the tank with as much fuel as I had and I noticed that INJ-1 and INJ-2 had good fuses In the block but they were 20 and 25amp fuses. The fuse block called for each of those circuits to have 10amp fuses. I swapped out the 20 and 25 with tens and low and behold she fired up. So here’s my summary. I was having a crank with no start
i changed the following parts
fuel filter
fuel pressure regulator
fuel injectors
plugs
wires
distributor
Ignition coil
fuel injector harness
several wires and hoses.
man’s it now runs, it runs rough but it is definitely a huge step in the right direction !
I do appreciate all the responses and the help on this issue
thank you all
Fourth Generation Moderator
October 2009 ROTM
October 2009 ROTM
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Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Eastern PA,
ROTM Winner's Club
You may have a loose wire or connection around that fuse and moving stuff around got it working. Having to higher a rated fuse will not cause you any issues except if something fails you could have a fire. All a fuse is is a weak link in a circuit and has no other effect on how anything works.
Example: you are designing a circuit That needs 8 amps of power at it max draw. You design all the wires to handle 15 Amps you make sure that all the internals of all the components can handle 15 AMPs if it was forced though it. Then you give it a 10 AMP fuse. If something fails in the circuit the fuse burns before anything else. It is a built in failure point. If you put a 20 amp fuse in place of the 10 amp fuse you just eliminated you built in weak spot. This would have no effect on a working circuit until something fails so bad it draws more power then the wire can handle. The copper will get hot, as the wire gets hotter if builds resistance and wire resistance will draw more power and that will escalate until the copper melts. IMO This is by far the most common cause of car fires. People not understanding this..
Example: you are designing a circuit That needs 8 amps of power at it max draw. You design all the wires to handle 15 Amps you make sure that all the internals of all the components can handle 15 AMPs if it was forced though it. Then you give it a 10 AMP fuse. If something fails in the circuit the fuse burns before anything else. It is a built in failure point. If you put a 20 amp fuse in place of the 10 amp fuse you just eliminated you built in weak spot. This would have no effect on a working circuit until something fails so bad it draws more power then the wire can handle. The copper will get hot, as the wire gets hotter if builds resistance and wire resistance will draw more power and that will escalate until the copper melts. IMO This is by far the most common cause of car fires. People not understanding this..
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