The "Slow but Steady" '78 Project Build

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  #991  
Old 08-14-2014, 10:59 PM
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Going to be tough to time it the way Chuck described if it's backfiring through the carb! At least I'd be gun shy trying to tweak the timing and dodging flames! I'd try adjusting it a little one way or the other and see if it catches, then you can time it the way he described after it's not spitting flames at you.
Get yourself a remote starter button too! Their just a few bucks at a parts store, and you can hook it to battery and S terminals on the solenoid to crank the engine over while you tweak the distributor. Be sure the key is on when using the remote, as it only cranks, and you'll need power to the coil.
 
  #992  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:19 AM
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With the timing way too far advanced, the plugs are firing before the intake valves are fully closed. Fire then travels back up the intake and out the carb.
Want to dodge the flames and save your eyebrows? Put on the air cleaner (also known as a flame arrestor).
And Vall already mentioned about how handy it is having an inexpensive remote start switch.
When the engine was running before, at what degrees was the timing set at?
 
  #993  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:04 AM
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Only reason air cleaner isn't on there yet was due to the fact that I was trying to make sure the choke was functioning properly. Hard to get your eyebrows through the windshield but I wouldn't rule anything out with this car. If it comes down to it I'll go and pick up a remote start but I'm still hoping I can get this figured out today. If I was pulling the distributor again (which I probably will have to) I'd do the same thing I did yesterday. Have no idea what timing was set at when the engine would start/run before. Couldn't get it to idle to check the timing.
 
  #994  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:29 AM
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Hopefully you don't have multiple issues, beyond getting the timing closer. If it wouldn't idle down previously, it could be it just wasn't warmed up, or timing was just off a little. Could also be a vacuum leak, or carb troubles.
 
  #995  
Old 08-15-2014, 11:22 AM
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What harmonic dampener and timing tab are you using? GM had a couple different dampener styles; one with the timing line 10 degrees left of the crank key notch, and one with the line at TDC (lining up with the keyway). Your timing might not be where you think it is if you have a timing tab that's mis-matched to the dampener.
Get the engine running good by ear, then put the timing light on it. If the marks are way off and the engine doesn't want to run right where the timing is supposed to be, then you have a mis-match.
 

Last edited by Camaro 69; 08-15-2014 at 11:24 AM.
  #996  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:13 PM
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Might also check TDC on #1 to determine true TDC, and then compare the mark and the tab to see if they're close when the piston is truly at the end of it's stroke. A piston stop in #1 will tell you for sure what's going on.
 
  #997  
Old 08-15-2014, 08:25 PM
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Before I put the upper half of the engine on I made sure it was at TDC and set the pointer to the 0 mark on the balancer. The balancer is a Pro-Street brand (Pro-Race parent company) and the pointer is an aftermarket one that I bought. I did set everything before I put the heads on to make sure it was true TDC and then set the pointer to the mark on the balancer. This evening I pulled the distributor back out again only this time I set the balancer to 4 degrees BTDC and lined up the rotor with #1. Didn't start but I believe it would have if I left my foot to the floor after it fired. I hate doing that and having it rev high right after it starts. It would fire and quickly die. I advanced the distributor a little bit more and then it would fire, die and puff out the carb - but no flames. I moved the distributor back to where it was when I began and then retarded it slightly. It then would try to fire, when I stopped turning the key it would chug for a second or two but nothing out of the carb. Again, I don't want to leave my foot on the floor after it fires! Fuel pressure between 5.5 and 6 lbs. and I can watch fuel spray into the carb when I hit the throttle. The raw fuel smell was really bad again. I watched the choke plate open up after leaving the key on for a few seconds before turning it over. So, I want to say progress but still no running Camaro.
 
  #998  
Old 08-16-2014, 08:38 PM
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Spent most of my time today trying to get the driver seat installed with the bracket that I made for it. Also finished sanding/polishing the X pipe so I can get the exhaust installed. I did spent quite a bit of time trying to get the Camaro running as well. The timing has got to be close where I have it now (second time pulling the distributor and setting it 4 degrees btdc.) If I move the distributor in either direction slightly it will still fire up with my foot on the floor, but still it immediately dies. Starting to worry about the big puff of smoke/fuel etc. out the carb when it dies too. It's pretty violent and just feeling everything shudder so hard when it does makes me think something inside the engine is going to get messed up with it doing that. Sure wish I knew if the carb was operating properly. Fuel is spraying in fine, choke is working but I don't see the secondaries open up when I move the throttle all the way, is that normal with vacuum secondaries? Not sure what else I can do to get this Camaro to start and run on it's own and my frustration is starting to turn to worries. I read last night about all the different initial timing settings people have with larger cams so I'm completely stymied as to what I should be looking for timing-wise with mine. I assumed that with it set around the 12 degree btdc mark that it would at least run. Tired of problems! It would sure be nice to drive this Camaro before summer ends. It's been 2 weeks now that it has been ready to fire up but has yet to stay running for longer than 1 minute - with me keeping it above 2000 rpms. Wish I would've left the distributor alone!!
 
  #999  
Old 08-17-2014, 10:29 AM
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I have a hunch your issues are more carburetor, than anything else. Timing is very hard to set exactly at 4 degrees by looking at the rotor and cap, and turning the distributor to get it. If it's not wanting to start without wide open throttle, it may be getting too much fuel, and needs more air to compensate for a wet start. I'd either pull the carb apart to see what's wrong, or get another carb to try. It's possible the float needle is stuck, and too much gas is flowing. Or some other issue that's making the idle circuit so rich, and flooding the engine at start up.
Don't let this go too long, or you'll dilute your crankcase oil with gas, and then not have good protection for your engine's bearings!
 
  #1000  
Old 08-17-2014, 11:32 AM
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Seeing as I have to order oil from Summit and wait a couple days to get it, I agree with you on that Vall. I probably will end up pulling this carb back off and checking it out. Not sure what I'll be looking for, but I'll check it out. I did do a rebuild on this carb not that long ago if you remember. The carb wasn't very old (been on car for couple months) when I bought it but I wanted to clean everything and make it all new before putting it on the 327. There was nothing difficult about rebuilding it, not sure what could have been done wrong really. However, it was my first time so anything's possible. The kit I got had the "upgrade" steel/fluorocarbon accelerator pump and high flow 110 needle and seats. I am not the most well versed with internal operation of the different circuits but understand the idle circuit is stand alone from the part and WOT one's. When I pump the pedal I can hear when the fuel hits the spark but it will not continue. I know gasoline smells strong but my thinking was that with the big high rise single plane manifold on there that it would need a lot of gas to get down to the chambers. Plugs are starting to gunk up though (from the looks of #1 when pulled) so it's time to get this figured out. I have another edelbrock carb that came on the 327 but it's manual choke that the choke valve has been completely removed, it's old and filthy. Not something I want to stick on top of the engine to try at this point.


I didn't mean that I set the timing to 4 degrees via the distributor. I set the balancer/pointer at 4 and then lined up the rotor with #1. I realize that initial should be more advanced than that but when I do much more it starts to flame out the carb.
 


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