Hi Guys -

Yes, I know, I am a noob to these forums. :-) However I am not a stranger to them - you guys have pretty much single handedly helped me put my 68 SS back together on a frame off restoration. Everything from my front disc brake conversion to "oh, that's where that goes".... I have found on this forum.

Well, I've got a vexing problem and could use some expert advice. Just walked in from the garage after trying *again* to get my car started and it just refuses.

Long story short, I dropped in a 327 from a 66 Vette this summer. I put in a lopey cam and a Performer RPM Manifold, however kept the original Holley carb and sent it off to be rebuilt. This summer I got it all running again and had to pull the engine after it was running to have some tranny work done. I pulled the engine, replaced the tranny and put it back together and re-timed the whole thing. It was running and sounding great this fall. I had it running only a couple of times. Well, now it's cold out and it will not start. As a matter of fact, it has not run since November when the temp was around 45 degrees.

When I turn the key it acts like it wants to start but never does...it kind of fires at regular intervals but never catches. It kind of sounds like a wump wump wump. I even tried starting fluid and no difference. I know it has spark because I can hear it (the engine) speed up momentarily. I inspected all the ignition wires and found cracks in the boots on 2 of them, so I just replaced those. Pretty much everything on the engine is brand new....new plugs, distributor, wires, fuel pump, fuel filter, etc.

I just came in from trying it again and found a pool of gas on my manifold on both sides of the carb after cranking it a while....so I know right away that the gasket needs replaced. Would that cause what I am describing? At this point I am thinking it is the carb...like I said it is the old 66 Holley - it has a divorced choke, could it be that the power valve is blown? I've messed around with the lean/rich screws and still no change. I took the carb off just now and found gas standing in the manifold, so I know it is getting gas. :-)

I am considering replacing the carb with an Edelbrock 1411 750...is that too much carb for this engine, in your opinion? A guy an Craigslist has one used for 200 bucks....however I hate to spend 200 bucks on an experiment.

I guess I am asking you folks for your opinion, things to check, etc because I am out of ideas. Thanks so much for your help, I appreciate your time.

Respectfully,
Shawn

 

how cold is it? try a block heater or a drop light with a 100w buld by the block just to give it some warmth as for the carb Ive hated hollys for 20 years ( I know others love em diff strokes) as for the edelbrock its the same a the carter AFB's a 600 should do just fine 750's are good for beefy bigblocks and a brand new one in the box should go for 230 to 250 bucks so no bargan at 200 for used

 

Well, you're getting plenty of gas, but looks like you're not getting ignition. What type of distributor are you using, original style points & condenser, or electronic? From the factory, the coil is hooked up to a resistance wire to drop "key on" power to the coil to 10 volts or a little less. Then there is a (should be yellow) bypass wire on the "r" terminal of the starter, which also ran to the coil to give it a full 12 volts only while cranking the engine over (to compensate for the current draw of the starter). Without that secondary hookup wire, the engine would either be very hard to start, or won't start at all. If you still have a points distributor, make sure that starter to coil wire is still hooked up. Otherwise, a low voltage to ignition at start-up can very likely be the problem. Now, if the ignition has been converted over to electronic such as HEI, you want a clean 12 volt source to the distributor, and the original resistance wire and the "r" starter wire is not used. If you have an HEI hooked up to the original resistance coil wire, it's underpowered. Using a volt meter, you can easily tell what voltage you have at the coil or distributor, both at "key-on" (run), and the "start" position.

 

Hey there A2Turbo - thanks for the heads up on the carb. A quick check on ebay completed listings show a 600 cfm #1406 going for around 100-125.00 used. Yeah, I've heard that old Holley's can be finicky beasts in cold weather, it has been around 30-35 degrees here so that may explain it. I am however going to at least get a new gasket under it and see if that makes any difference at all. Thanks so much for your input! I may just spring for a new 1406 anyway as I don't want to go through this every year. :-)

 

Hi Camaro 69 -

Thanks for your detailed and helpful answer. I have a brand new HEI distributor and a new wiring harness at the firewall. I'm pretty sure I have the correct wires hooked up to the starter and the distributor as I did have it running this fall and nothing has changed with the wiring. When I try to turn it over I do hear the engine speed up at regular intervals - like it is trying to fire - but then it dies until the next interval. It reminds me of trying to start an old motorcycle with a pull choke, you know? You have to keep working the choke until it fires and sputters to life...it's that kind of sound, except it never sputters to life. :-) However thanks for the input on the voltage levels on the wiring...I did not check that but it sure would not hurt.

Kind Regards,
Shawn

 

Shawn,
Respectfully, we need to find out if this issue is ignition or gas.

Let's not assume anything at this point. First off, remove the #1 spark plug wire from the spark plug. Holding the insulated wire, put a phillips screw driver into it and hold it near a ground source away from any gasoline and have somebody crank the engine. You should see a very rich blue spark jump from the screwdriver to your ground. If not, then we need to find out why.

While your there, pull out a spark plug and see what it looks like. If it was really cold out there and you were cranking and pumping the gas pedal until you flooded the system, is a good chance you've fouled all of your plugs and that's why it's not starting. Take a wire brush and clean them if that's the case and make sure you set the gap appropriate to your ignition system.

Let's start there and work forward.

 

Hi Stovebolts -

Thanks so much for the thought on the fouled spark plugs - I'll bet that is the problem as I know I flooded it out when I was trying to start it. It's been really cold here (in the teens) lately but this week it is supposed to be warmer so I'll have a look at it. Of course I have to drop my header to get to my #6 plug but that's another issue.

 

Hi Swalsh,

Bummer you have to drop the header for #6. What a pain in the rear!

Just curious, but do you have a choke? I know mine is a cold blooded beast and I don't have a choke. But a good can of starter fluid does wonders?

Just make sure that your getting spark first, and maybe don't pump so many times and try a little bit of starter fluid. Maybe you'll get her to cough without flooding again and they'll clean up without having to pull them.

Just for curiosity sake, are you running shorty plugs?

Jeff

 

silly question, but have you tried turning the distributor? It could be that your advance and/or timing is slightly off. I have seen this problem before where a vehicle is not starting but appears to WANT to start... a simple adjustment of the distributor clockwise or counter-clockwise has fixed it in the past (this only applies to new motor installs).

 

check for any sign of water in the fuel. maybe check fuel filter for water. if all elese fails try a new ingition control modual. dang gm dizzy. carry extra icm on the netter for when it fails.