LS3 Time- LS1 Grenaded at Road America :(
#12
05-30-2015 | 12:28 PM
4th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,315
From: troy NH
i like my 350 turbo an where I live everyone wants one in there car or even more the th400, people realy like oldshcool .sometimes I miss the 4th gear ,but not realy couse when I hit the gas it just gets up with the rmps an goes .down to 2 gear is a good thing in slowing down my car an saveing my brakes, my car 1 gear is low 10 to 15mph can go 70 in second ,I will be building mine up next year the rearend that is I prefur automatic trannys clutches are ok but wear out to me another thing that breaks to easy ,with the 406 I just prefur to shift manula anyhow most of the time with 2500 stall
Last edited by 95 camaro 406; 05-30-2015 at 12:38 PM.
#14
06-01-2015 | 03:41 PM
4th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,315
From: troy NH
I say go for what you can afford what you want ,,I know what you meen about the views an no ideas ,no thoughts about a good crate engine ,,or just go with your ls2 build,me i would love to make an would need a new donor car would be 427 the ls7 7.2L .an from 500hp to about 700hp depending on the goodies ,I am one of those people who can wait when I put my mind to it made up ,no regrets about my swap though now .at the time I was going oh god what did I get myself into ,now I am very happy with the outcome
#15
06-18-2015 | 01:29 AM
Thread Starter
|
Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
Some nice inputs here, thank you much -- will certainly talk through some of this with my trans guy. That said, I would really love to stay away from the 4L80E -- a great number of compromises there, but point taken.
I have that Sonnax HD Shift Valve upgrade that gives me engine braking in D1 & 2, which also applies the overrun clutch in D1 & 2, stock does not. I have a B&M Trans cooler and use Redline trans fluid to lower temps, but yes heat is also a problem with my Yank 3200 stall torque converter.
How much better is the Smart Tech Input Drum in reality -- how much more life or robustness does it buy you? That might be hard to quantify, but I would like to hear answers anyhow.
I have that Sonnax HD Shift Valve upgrade that gives me engine braking in D1 & 2, which also applies the overrun clutch in D1 & 2, stock does not. I have a B&M Trans cooler and use Redline trans fluid to lower temps, but yes heat is also a problem with my Yank 3200 stall torque converter.
How much better is the Smart Tech Input Drum in reality -- how much more life or robustness does it buy you? That might be hard to quantify, but I would like to hear answers anyhow.
Road Racing is very hard on the 3-4 Clutches, The constant cycling of the Clutch (3-2, 2-3, 3-1 etc) Will build ALOT of heat....And eventual 3-4 Clutch Failure.
Using a Stock Input Drum....The best set-up to run is Stock thickness Steels & Stock thickness Clutches. (Stock 4L60E 6 Count), Borg Warner Hi-Energy Or Raybestos GPZ would be the best Friction Material to use in this application.
Most people would question....Why not use more Friction Plates?....Simple, The only way to add more frictions is to run Thinner Frictions & Steels, Thinner Frictions do not take much heat without "Coning", Running Thinner Steels magnifies the problem further.....The Steels are basically the Heat Sinks in the Clutch Pack.
Of coarse...Only running 6 Frictions cuts down on Friction Area & Holding Power, With your new "Bigger" engine....This is also an issue.
The Sonnax Smart Tech Input Drum is only solution on the market for this, You can run 8 full thickness Frictions & 7 full thickness Steels, More info Here... Smart-Tech® Input Housing Kit with Heavy Duty Input Shaft - 77733-12K - Sonnax
This Input Drum is almost $700. And still leaves a couple fatal flaws in the design....The super small 3-4 Apply Piston, No fix for that.
The 2-4 Band has to "Knock-off" & 3-4's apply every 2-3 shift, And vice-versa on a 3-2 downshift.
Unfortunately, This will cause either a (Flare) or (Bind).....On a Good working unit, You wont notice or feel it. But it IS there & "Pecks Away" at the 3-4's slowly.
What I would do in your situation.....4L80E, No doubt about it!
4L80E's shift "straight through"...No releasing & applying clutches to shift.
Friction diameters dwarf those found in 4L60E's.
Have Engine Braking In Manual 3rd, 2nd, & 1st by design.
Dual feeding the Direct Clutches, Higher Ratio boost valve, Some hydraulic upgrades, Set end play, Tailor Plate hole sizes, Block the 2-3 accumulator, Blueprint the Clutch clearances, & a good Converter.....Will take 550-600 ft lbs for years of road racing.
Minor tunnel mods are necessary.
Mod the shifter cable bracket.
Torque arm relocation, Subframe connectors required.
Running some wires from the PCM for the Input Speed Sensor.
4L60E to 4L80E main connector Jumper Harness. Adds length to the harness & moves/repines the wires for a 4L80E, BP Automotive is a good source.
4L80E "Segment Swap" performed on your PCM
2500HD truck-4L80E Flexplate/Spacer/Bolts....Spacer, Bolts & SFI Flexplate for you.
Have the Driveshaft shortened & 32 Spline TH400/4L80E slip yoke installed.
Using a Stock Input Drum....The best set-up to run is Stock thickness Steels & Stock thickness Clutches. (Stock 4L60E 6 Count), Borg Warner Hi-Energy Or Raybestos GPZ would be the best Friction Material to use in this application.
Most people would question....Why not use more Friction Plates?....Simple, The only way to add more frictions is to run Thinner Frictions & Steels, Thinner Frictions do not take much heat without "Coning", Running Thinner Steels magnifies the problem further.....The Steels are basically the Heat Sinks in the Clutch Pack.
Of coarse...Only running 6 Frictions cuts down on Friction Area & Holding Power, With your new "Bigger" engine....This is also an issue.
The Sonnax Smart Tech Input Drum is only solution on the market for this, You can run 8 full thickness Frictions & 7 full thickness Steels, More info Here... Smart-Tech® Input Housing Kit with Heavy Duty Input Shaft - 77733-12K - Sonnax
This Input Drum is almost $700. And still leaves a couple fatal flaws in the design....The super small 3-4 Apply Piston, No fix for that.
The 2-4 Band has to "Knock-off" & 3-4's apply every 2-3 shift, And vice-versa on a 3-2 downshift.
Unfortunately, This will cause either a (Flare) or (Bind).....On a Good working unit, You wont notice or feel it. But it IS there & "Pecks Away" at the 3-4's slowly.
What I would do in your situation.....4L80E, No doubt about it!
4L80E's shift "straight through"...No releasing & applying clutches to shift.
Friction diameters dwarf those found in 4L60E's.
Have Engine Braking In Manual 3rd, 2nd, & 1st by design.
Dual feeding the Direct Clutches, Higher Ratio boost valve, Some hydraulic upgrades, Set end play, Tailor Plate hole sizes, Block the 2-3 accumulator, Blueprint the Clutch clearances, & a good Converter.....Will take 550-600 ft lbs for years of road racing.
Minor tunnel mods are necessary.
Mod the shifter cable bracket.
Torque arm relocation, Subframe connectors required.
Running some wires from the PCM for the Input Speed Sensor.
4L60E to 4L80E main connector Jumper Harness. Adds length to the harness & moves/repines the wires for a 4L80E, BP Automotive is a good source.
4L80E "Segment Swap" performed on your PCM
2500HD truck-4L80E Flexplate/Spacer/Bolts....Spacer, Bolts & SFI Flexplate for you.
Have the Driveshaft shortened & 32 Spline TH400/4L80E slip yoke installed.
#16
06-18-2015 | 01:37 AM
Thread Starter
|
Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
TSI Racing: TSI racing transmissions home of Transmission Specialties INC.
They also service Bruno Massel's winning 5th Gen COPO Camaro trans.
Drag Racer Massel, Lands a COPO Camaro, and Then a Title : GM Service Insights
They also service Bruno Massel's winning 5th Gen COPO Camaro trans.
Drag Racer Massel, Lands a COPO Camaro, and Then a Title : GM Service Insights
#17
06-18-2015 | 01:40 AM
Thread Starter
|
Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
Well, the long block has shipped, here's a preview... Thompson Motorsports says this engine package dyno'd higher -- 576 HP at the crank, still waiting on the dyno sheet. I added an Improved Racing oil pan baffle, Delphi 85mm MAF & 98mm FTP Airlid, and plan to get my long tubes ceramic coated to help control heat better!
So if you want a nice package, call TMS and mention my screen name when you order!
So if you want a nice package, call TMS and mention my screen name when you order!
Last edited by libertyforall1776; 06-18-2015 at 01:47 AM.
#18
06-18-2015 | 07:50 PM
In the Staging Lanes
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 75
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Some nice inputs here, thank you much -- will certainly talk through some of this with my trans guy. That said, I would really love to stay away from the 4L80E -- a great number of compromises there, but point taken.
I have that Sonnax HD Shift Valve upgrade that gives me engine braking in D1 & 2, which also applies the overrun clutch in D1 & 2, stock does not. I have a B&M Trans cooler and use Redline trans fluid to lower temps, but yes heat is also a problem with my Yank 3200 stall torque converter.
How much better is the Smart Tech Input Drum in reality -- how much more life or robustness does it buy you? That might be hard to quantify, but I would like to hear answers anyhow.
I have that Sonnax HD Shift Valve upgrade that gives me engine braking in D1 & 2, which also applies the overrun clutch in D1 & 2, stock does not. I have a B&M Trans cooler and use Redline trans fluid to lower temps, but yes heat is also a problem with my Yank 3200 stall torque converter.
How much better is the Smart Tech Input Drum in reality -- how much more life or robustness does it buy you? That might be hard to quantify, but I would like to hear answers anyhow.
First off, I didn't realize you had the trans built already. I thought you just had the Overrun Valve installed.
The Sonnax Drum helps ALOT! I had a customer with a supercharged/Cam/heads 5.3L burn down his 3-4 clutches 14 times in 1 year, I tore the Trans down & didn't find anything that the previous builder had done wrong. Installed the Sonnax drum....Ran for 2 years with no 3-4 clutch failure.....Then he broke an Output shaft....I checked the 3-4's at that time, They were a little distressed & needed freshening.
Since then he has "rolled" a Borg Warner Sprag.
Add still cant talk him into a 4L80E????
Don't get me wrong 4L60E's are good transmissions when not abused & not overpowered, 576 HP is a lot to ask out of a 60E, Even with the Drum....You might start breaking other ****.
The fact your going to have the Engine/Trans out of the car anyway.....Now is the time for this decision!
I wish you the best of luck! Nice engine BTW!!!!!!
#19
06-18-2015 | 11:45 PM
Thread Starter
|
Overdrive Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,042
From: IL
Wow, what was that guy doing with the car to burn clutches 14 times in a year? 
Know what kind of HP/TQ he had?
Sounds like next trans rebuild I will seriously consider that drum. Anything else really worthwhile on the 60E? Already have the 5 pinion planets. Sounds like you work at a trans rebuild shop huh?
My trans is currently fine and was just rebuilt prior to my Road America engine blowout, so I will leave well enough alone for now.
Know what kind of HP/TQ he had?Sounds like next trans rebuild I will seriously consider that drum. Anything else really worthwhile on the 60E? Already have the 5 pinion planets. Sounds like you work at a trans rebuild shop huh?
My trans is currently fine and was just rebuilt prior to my Road America engine blowout, so I will leave well enough alone for now.
First off, I didn't realize you had the trans built already. I thought you just had the Overrun Valve installed.
The Sonnax Drum helps ALOT! I had a customer with a supercharged/Cam/heads 5.3L burn down his 3-4 clutches 14 times in 1 year, I tore the Trans down & didn't find anything that the previous builder had done wrong. Installed the Sonnax drum....Ran for 2 years with no 3-4 clutch failure.....Then he broke an Output shaft....I checked the 3-4's at that time, They were a little distressed & needed freshening.
Since then he has "rolled" a Borg Warner Sprag.
Add still cant talk him into a 4L80E????
Don't get me wrong 4L60E's are good transmissions when not abused & not overpowered, 576 HP is a lot to ask out of a 60E, Even with the Drum....You might start breaking other ****.
The fact your going to have the Engine/Trans out of the car anyway.....Now is the time for this decision!
I wish you the best of luck! Nice engine BTW!!!!!!
The Sonnax Drum helps ALOT! I had a customer with a supercharged/Cam/heads 5.3L burn down his 3-4 clutches 14 times in 1 year, I tore the Trans down & didn't find anything that the previous builder had done wrong. Installed the Sonnax drum....Ran for 2 years with no 3-4 clutch failure.....Then he broke an Output shaft....I checked the 3-4's at that time, They were a little distressed & needed freshening.
Since then he has "rolled" a Borg Warner Sprag.
Add still cant talk him into a 4L80E????
Don't get me wrong 4L60E's are good transmissions when not abused & not overpowered, 576 HP is a lot to ask out of a 60E, Even with the Drum....You might start breaking other ****.
The fact your going to have the Engine/Trans out of the car anyway.....Now is the time for this decision!
I wish you the best of luck! Nice engine BTW!!!!!!