New Design Hub Bearing for 4th Gen & others
#1
07-14-2013, 08:21 PM
New Design Hub Bearing for 4th Gen & others
Copied from FRRAX;
Hoosier Performance Engineering's first new product a clean sheet approach to a billet front hub and bearing assembly for the 4th Gen F-bodies and C4 Corvettes. Many of the other hub/bearing threads are getting pretty long and don't really end with a sustainable solution, so I thought a new thread was in order.
I won't bore you with the details on HPE, other than to say a group of highly qualified and skilled automotive engineers have gotten together to create performance products for the 4th Gens and modern muscle cars. You can read more about HPE on the General Discussions forum where Kevin introduced HPE as a new sponsor.
I've been contemplating the 4th Gen front hub issues since I returned to Auto-X in the fall of '97 with the purchase of my first TA and began working in earnest on new designs in November of last year. What you see below is the result of two gear-heads work for the past 7 or 8 months, plus over 6000k worth of invested in prototypes tooling and CNC programming. Prototypes are installed and accumulating mileage and we will be ready to take orders as soon as the machine shop volume quotation is received and final pricing can is set.
I'll let the pictures do the talking first, and then will follow up with some detailed descriptions of the components.
Here's a disassembled OEM hub and the new HPE replacement parts. Note the OEM uses ball bearings while the other is tapered roller. On Timken's website, the tapered bearings are rated much higher in every category vs. the ball bearings. Small bearing has a 1.25 ID and the large bearing has an 1.5 ID. For comparison, the old GM RWD cars used like 7/8 and 1 inch bearings with the front spindle design.
Oh BTW they are not going to be cheap.
likely over $1200 a set !
http://hooserPE.com
Hoosier Performance Engineering's first new product a clean sheet approach to a billet front hub and bearing assembly for the 4th Gen F-bodies and C4 Corvettes. Many of the other hub/bearing threads are getting pretty long and don't really end with a sustainable solution, so I thought a new thread was in order.
I won't bore you with the details on HPE, other than to say a group of highly qualified and skilled automotive engineers have gotten together to create performance products for the 4th Gens and modern muscle cars. You can read more about HPE on the General Discussions forum where Kevin introduced HPE as a new sponsor.
I've been contemplating the 4th Gen front hub issues since I returned to Auto-X in the fall of '97 with the purchase of my first TA and began working in earnest on new designs in November of last year. What you see below is the result of two gear-heads work for the past 7 or 8 months, plus over 6000k worth of invested in prototypes tooling and CNC programming. Prototypes are installed and accumulating mileage and we will be ready to take orders as soon as the machine shop volume quotation is received and final pricing can is set.
I'll let the pictures do the talking first, and then will follow up with some detailed descriptions of the components.
Here's a disassembled OEM hub and the new HPE replacement parts. Note the OEM uses ball bearings while the other is tapered roller. On Timken's website, the tapered bearings are rated much higher in every category vs. the ball bearings. Small bearing has a 1.25 ID and the large bearing has an 1.5 ID. For comparison, the old GM RWD cars used like 7/8 and 1 inch bearings with the front spindle design.
Oh BTW they are not going to be cheap.
likely over $1200 a set !
http://hooserPE.com
#2
07-15-2013, 08:32 AM
LOL, If there is any real market for converting hubs over to old school tapper bearing I can do it for $800 
6000K ? He means $6000.00 worth of tooling? That would be about right. About 30 hours with the bearing engineer would get you the detailed drawings and about 40 hour worth of manufacturing engineering time would get you the manufacturing process. (I used to estimate project costs all the time) All told I would estimate about 20k for the prototype build at a bearing manufacture.
His problem is going to be volume. He is going to need to make a couple hundred at a time to help cover the setup costs of the CNCs. The only reason bearing manufactures do not try this type of work is because most of the time it never recoups the original investment. It’s too big a risk. If he is successful a larger manufactures will jump on board and make stuff in on very high speed machines and blow his cost out of the water.
In a past life I was a manufacturing engineer with NTN. We made wheel bearing
FYI: the engineering behind what he is doing is very sound. The automotive industry used to use taper bearing in all front wheel application. In an attempt to reduce drag on the car auto manufactures switched to angular contact bearings. Since they use round bearings they have a single contact point while going straight. The taper bearings have a contact line instead of a point. This meant the bearing can handle more side load without deforming.
To put it simply unless they screw up it has to be a better bearing going around corners and it will cost you a ½ hp in the straight away.
6000K ? He means $6000.00 worth of tooling? That would be about right. About 30 hours with the bearing engineer would get you the detailed drawings and about 40 hour worth of manufacturing engineering time would get you the manufacturing process. (I used to estimate project costs all the time) All told I would estimate about 20k for the prototype build at a bearing manufacture.
His problem is going to be volume. He is going to need to make a couple hundred at a time to help cover the setup costs of the CNCs. The only reason bearing manufactures do not try this type of work is because most of the time it never recoups the original investment. It’s too big a risk. If he is successful a larger manufactures will jump on board and make stuff in on very high speed machines and blow his cost out of the water.
In a past life I was a manufacturing engineer with NTN. We made wheel bearing
FYI: the engineering behind what he is doing is very sound. The automotive industry used to use taper bearing in all front wheel application. In an attempt to reduce drag on the car auto manufactures switched to angular contact bearings. Since they use round bearings they have a single contact point while going straight. The taper bearings have a contact line instead of a point. This meant the bearing can handle more side load without deforming.
To put it simply unless they screw up it has to be a better bearing going around corners and it will cost you a ½ hp in the straight away.
Last edited by Gorn; 07-15-2013 at 10:56 AM.
#3
07-15-2013, 08:46 AM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The 'Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 18,306
That's certainly overkill for a street car, and for that, nobody in their right mind would pay 4+ times as much over a very good stock replacement type hub. So their market is limited to an ever dwindling supply of 4th gen's, and for the most part only to those who road race them. I wonder if they did any market research to determine the projected demand?
#4
07-15-2013, 11:19 AM
These are for often tracked cars for less of a possibility for front hub failure.
Some have had repeated failure or even catastrophic failures of the front hubs.
Some have had repeated failure or even catastrophic failures of the front hubs.
#5
07-15-2013, 12:59 PM
Another FYI, The manufacturing cost on a factory hub type bearing in the late 90's was about $28 +/- $2.00 depending on life cycle testing requirments and features. The rest of the money you pay when you buy one is going into someones pocket. Now look at what GM charges for them, Not autozone, GM. yea that is a markup.
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