Depowering a rack and pinion...

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  #11  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:02 PM
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Yes there is a after market manual rack for this car. You are mistaken about the weight. These 4th gens are very heavy.

When I was talking about car designed for manual I was talking about the older cars. I don't think there has been a stock manual steering camaro since the 2nd gen.
 
  #12  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:02 PM
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a new manual unit is between 6 and 7 bills, rebuilt power unit is 140 bucks. manual unit is 3.75 turns side to side, power unit is 2.3 turns side to side lock. i dont think the car is going to be safe in certain conditions.
 
  #13  
Old 12-21-2012, 09:36 PM
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After I installed it, I was AMAZED! I can turn my steering wheel with my pinky finger lock to lock! Can't wait to have my car done and see how much more responsive this will be! Let me know what you guys think!
Have you tried turning it lock to lock, with tires and full weight on the suspension? Having it in the air turning lock to lock is going to be the same as if you had power steering but with the car off. I can promise you that you won't be turning it with your pinky finger when the tires and weight is on it.
 
  #14  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:47 PM
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@craby, i am aware of the steering ratio differences, I know it will be noticable but i think it will be less than problematic. Im not the strongest but strength is the determining factor of wither or not this setup is safe for certain conditions. I never parallel park which won't be an issue lol, even with power steering.

@MKCoconuts, i'm sorry but you have a converter rack and a power rack to compare to side by side?? Do not tell me its the same as the normal rack with the car off. When the rack was in the car when it was hooked up with the 3.4l and we had the car jacked up we could hardly turn the steering wheel to move the tie rods. Having the rack on the vise and turning the pinion with a pipe wrench was barely possible. Now afterwards we had the rack in the vise and I could turn the pinion with my hand.

I'm not an idiot, I understand steering systems have more load when the car's on the ground holding weight on its tires. I encourage you to pick up a junkyard rack and do this on a rainy day and see the difference.

I know this will be fine, ricers run converted racks all the time, no problem. weight difference or not.
 
  #15  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:55 PM
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also, we don't have vehicle inspections in Michigan
 
  #16  
Old 12-22-2012, 12:45 AM
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To address the car's weight, the 69 was 3,120 lbs and 4th gen's are 3,306 lbs. Less than 200 lbs more, not to mention all that weight isn't on the front tires. There is also a plus or minus factor based on added options. 4th gens have a lot of plastic inside and out, that the 1st or 2nd gens don't have. On the flip side, your car is lighter than a big block 1st gen. So, I wouldn't say at all that the 4th gens are "very heavy", weight comparison isn't a factor.
The reason your power rack moved hard is because it's designed to be "driven" by hydraulic pressure, not manually. Whether or not there is weight on the tires doesn't change the operation of the rack & pinion. Before, you were trying to fight against the valving that you now have removed.
 
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:54 AM
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My memory is not the best but when I first got my 96 I thought it was going to be light because it was V6 5 speed, manual windows & lock. I had found a site (I can not find now) that listed base weight and the weight of every option. It listed my car at 3,425 lbs to my surpise the V8/automatic with power everything was only 185 lbs more, But that puts a fully decked out 4th gen just over 3,600 lbs. Also you have to keep in mind the the geometery of the steering plays a huge roll in the force needed to turn the wheels. The first gens where designed to be manual steer and the power steering was a addon. I tried pulling into the driveway today with the motor off. It was nothing like my 68 pick up. It was a fight. I am 6'1" and I bench 350 lbs. No way could one of my daughters drive a car that hard to turn.

As a matter of saftey it depends on how you plan on using the car. Daily driver, or weekend toy? I was a inspection mechanic. Before my training I thought inspection mechanics where butt heads. Any little thing wrong they want to charge me big money to fix. I thought I am not going to be a ***** as long as the car can be driven safley. The states training course works. They not only show the law but they explain why the law is there and in many cases they show the carnage caused when the law is ignored. You may be able to drive your car safely but what if your with your mother or daughter and you start to have a heart attack, she jumps behind the wheel in a made dash to save your life she ends up killing you and other people. "Que pictures". The main focus of a daily driver should be safety. Most people can handle a fast car but once you start reducing brakes or steering you really should make it a weekend/track car. There is no undo in life and regret sucks.
This modd will not pass safety inspection in any state I have lived in.
 

Last edited by Gorn; 12-22-2012 at 07:18 AM.
  #18  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:04 AM
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@Gorn, to address the weight i do have a HVAC Delete, Power Steering Delete, light weight carpet, rear seat delete, Battery Relocation (less weight on the front), UMI Performance suspension (probably 40lbs less), and light weight wheels. With my engine swap I think it will be on the lower end of the vehicle weight for 4th gens.

It was hard to pull into your drive way because of a few reasons, one being that bearing has incredible resistance to the casing so when you turned the wheel with the car off it was pushing that fluid back into the pump but the pump wasn't moving. second, their was nothing to push fluid back into the other side of the bearing because the pump was off. when you remove this bearing and plug the holes, you eliminate these problems. I wouldn't drive a P/S rack with the pump off or looped either. You really can't compare this to a power steering rack anymore and that's the bottom line. Its really a manual rack with a higher ratio.

Yes I see the safety problems, I have an S10 that is my daily driver. I doubt anyone will ever be driving this car besides myself but you do have a point. I have future plans to get some brembos and rear disc brakes so that will definitely increase the safety factor..
 
  #19  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:08 AM
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@Camaro 69, exactly! I'm trying to explain that the weight differences will be minimal. People keep telling me that they turned their motor off and they could hardly crack their wheels, well good for them because all they are doing are fighting valves designed to be nearly impossible to move without fluid going through it!

The only difference is going to be the gear ratio and with a little strength, it will be hardly noticable.
 
  #20  
Old 12-22-2012, 01:12 PM
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Considering your car started out about 200 +/- lbs more than my model, you're likely to be close now, and definitely lighter than a 2nd gen can be. Putting the battery in the back is a good option, although I can't say that I noticed a difference in steering when I moved mine. One difference that can affect turning effort is tire width, wider tires have more turning resistance. Be sure to come back with an honest report about the steering effort once the car is on the road.
 


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