She feels loose, PtII...input?
#1
11-04-2008, 07:50 PM
She feels loose, PtII...input?
I got underneath her tonight. Hehehe...
To sum things up...my Camaro seems to pull out of turns. I have to fight to keep her 'in the groove'. Quick freeway entrances and snappy lane changes are scary! (Struts and shocks are new, everything else is asumed to be stock and 25 years old)
Heres what I found
1) Ball joints had minimal play, nothing obvious there.
2) Tie rods moved freely, no obvious binding, clicking or defective parts. (What does a bad tie rod end feel/look like?)
3) Center link, pittman arm, front and rear sway bars all looked intact with no obvious defects.
The only peculiar thing I noticed was steering wheel play. The steering wheel seems to move about 2 inches before the gear box engages and begins to turn the wheels. With the steering wheel at 12 o'clock, the wheels start to move at about 11 and 1, when I apply left or right turning force.(Diagnosos done with car not running,so no power steering) Do steering gear boxes actually 'wear out'? I know seals go bad (replaced em already) but do the gears inside actually wear beyond acceptable limits? Most older cars seem to have some steering wheel play so I dont know if this is abnormal or not.
Comments? Suggestions? Helpfull anecdotes?
To sum things up...my Camaro seems to pull out of turns. I have to fight to keep her 'in the groove'. Quick freeway entrances and snappy lane changes are scary! (Struts and shocks are new, everything else is asumed to be stock and 25 years old)
Heres what I found
1) Ball joints had minimal play, nothing obvious there.
2) Tie rods moved freely, no obvious binding, clicking or defective parts. (What does a bad tie rod end feel/look like?)
3) Center link, pittman arm, front and rear sway bars all looked intact with no obvious defects.
The only peculiar thing I noticed was steering wheel play. The steering wheel seems to move about 2 inches before the gear box engages and begins to turn the wheels. With the steering wheel at 12 o'clock, the wheels start to move at about 11 and 1, when I apply left or right turning force.(Diagnosos done with car not running,so no power steering) Do steering gear boxes actually 'wear out'? I know seals go bad (replaced em already) but do the gears inside actually wear beyond acceptable limits? Most older cars seem to have some steering wheel play so I dont know if this is abnormal or not.
Comments? Suggestions? Helpfull anecdotes?
#2
11-04-2008, 08:13 PM
RE: She feels loose, PtII...input?
I don't think your steering wheel play is that much. May help to keep you going down the road straight as you relax while driving. To remove some play there is a lock nut and a screw, either an allen or slotted, on top. But be careful. you don't want that tight. You will really notice it if its tight when the wheels are on the ground and while you drive and make a turn it does not straighten out by itself. [8D]
The tie rods and center link and ball joints should not have any play. Check ball joints the zerk will get drawn inside as it wears. Also have the tire a few inches off the ground and while prying up on the tire feel if the spindle lifts off the control arm.
Also just about the same for the steering components. They will rock back and forth because they are on a ball so to speak. But just rock or pivot. Put a hand on a tie rod and center link. Have some one move the steering wheel a little back and forth. If you can feel the tie rod move before the center link then that joint is bad.
Get back under her and tell us how it feels......Spare no details!
The tie rods and center link and ball joints should not have any play. Check ball joints the zerk will get drawn inside as it wears. Also have the tire a few inches off the ground and while prying up on the tire feel if the spindle lifts off the control arm.
Also just about the same for the steering components. They will rock back and forth because they are on a ball so to speak. But just rock or pivot. Put a hand on a tie rod and center link. Have some one move the steering wheel a little back and forth. If you can feel the tie rod move before the center link then that joint is bad.
Get back under her and tell us how it feels......Spare no details!
#3
11-04-2008, 09:12 PM
RE: She feels loose, PtII...input?
ORIGINAL: ScottD
I got underneath her tonight. Hehehe...
To sum things up...my Camaro seems to pull out of turns. I have to fight to keep her 'in the groove'. Quick freeway entrances and snappy lane changes are scary! (Struts and shocks are new, everything else is asumed to be stock and 25 years old)
Heres what I found
1) Ball joints had minimal play, nothing obvious there.
2) Tie rods moved freely, no obvious binding, clicking or defective parts. (What does a bad tie rod end feel/look like?)
3) Center link, pittman arm, front and rear sway bars all looked intact with no obvious defects.
The only peculiar thing I noticed was steering wheel play. The steering wheel seems to move about 2 inches before the gear box engages and begins to turn the wheels. With the steering wheel at 12 o'clock, the wheels start to move at about 11 and 1, when I apply left or right turning force.(Diagnosos done with car not running,so no power steering) Do steering gear boxes actually 'wear out'? I know seals go bad (replaced em already) but do the gears inside actually wear beyond acceptable limits? Most older cars seem to have some steering wheel play so I dont know if this is abnormal or not.
Comments? Suggestions? Helpfull anecdotes?
I got underneath her tonight. Hehehe...
To sum things up...my Camaro seems to pull out of turns. I have to fight to keep her 'in the groove'. Quick freeway entrances and snappy lane changes are scary! (Struts and shocks are new, everything else is asumed to be stock and 25 years old)
Heres what I found
1) Ball joints had minimal play, nothing obvious there.
2) Tie rods moved freely, no obvious binding, clicking or defective parts. (What does a bad tie rod end feel/look like?)
3) Center link, pittman arm, front and rear sway bars all looked intact with no obvious defects.
The only peculiar thing I noticed was steering wheel play. The steering wheel seems to move about 2 inches before the gear box engages and begins to turn the wheels. With the steering wheel at 12 o'clock, the wheels start to move at about 11 and 1, when I apply left or right turning force.(Diagnosos done with car not running,so no power steering) Do steering gear boxes actually 'wear out'? I know seals go bad (replaced em already) but do the gears inside actually wear beyond acceptable limits? Most older cars seem to have some steering wheel play so I dont know if this is abnormal or not.
Comments? Suggestions? Helpfull anecdotes?
#4
11-04-2008, 10:19 PM
RE: She feels loose, PtII...input?
Mike, tell me more about that adjustment.
Im wondering if it will be cost effective to just replace the tie rod ends and maybe the ball joints. That kind of rules everything out, doesnt it? I just found a guy on EvilBay who is selling an entire kit (ball joints, inner andouter tie rod ends and sleeves, center link, idler and pittman arm) for about 150 bucks....I just dont wanna dump money if it turns out to be the springs or gearbox.
How much of a PITA are the ball joints? I havent done a set in years, and that was on a 1/2 ton Dodge truck. Spring compresser? Gotta press them in and out?
Im wondering if it will be cost effective to just replace the tie rod ends and maybe the ball joints. That kind of rules everything out, doesnt it? I just found a guy on EvilBay who is selling an entire kit (ball joints, inner andouter tie rod ends and sleeves, center link, idler and pittman arm) for about 150 bucks....I just dont wanna dump money if it turns out to be the springs or gearbox.
How much of a PITA are the ball joints? I havent done a set in years, and that was on a 1/2 ton Dodge truck. Spring compresser? Gotta press them in and out?
#5
11-04-2008, 11:21 PM
RE: She feels loose, PtII...input?
Look at the top of the steering box. there will be the square plate bolted on there with the lock nut and set screw. loosen the lock nut and just give the set screw a small turn. 1/8- no more than 1/4. It will still feel loose in the air but feel tight on the ground. You will drive it and say "OH F!CK" if you over tighten it.
The ball joints are not bad if you use the tool for doing them on the car. Autozone may have them as a loan a tool. Its basicly a big C clamp press. If not then you need to take out the A arm and use a press. Might as well do the bushings at the same time as well.
The spring I have always, when a motor is in the car, just put the floor jack under the A arm when busting loose the ball joint and then lower it slow. Then if I was doing springs pop em in and out with a pry bar. Spring compressor takes too long.
Also might want to shop other places for kits. Maybe summit or jegs for some Moog
The ball joints are not bad if you use the tool for doing them on the car. Autozone may have them as a loan a tool. Its basicly a big C clamp press. If not then you need to take out the A arm and use a press. Might as well do the bushings at the same time as well.
The spring I have always, when a motor is in the car, just put the floor jack under the A arm when busting loose the ball joint and then lower it slow. Then if I was doing springs pop em in and out with a pry bar. Spring compressor takes too long.
Also might want to shop other places for kits. Maybe summit or jegs for some Moog
#6
11-05-2008, 08:34 AM
RE: She feels loose, PtII...input?
Im assuming I am turning the screw clockwise, to tighten?
My only fear of replacing the springs is wat Ive seen happen to other people....all of the sudden your nose sits higher than the tail. People swear they got the right springs but it never looks right after that. Any real way to check the springs?
My only fear of replacing the springs is wat Ive seen happen to other people....all of the sudden your nose sits higher than the tail. People swear they got the right springs but it never looks right after that. Any real way to check the springs?
#7
11-05-2008, 09:56 AM
RE: She feels loose, PtII...input?
my guess is that it sits higher because they only replaced to front springs but not the rear. threfore you have brand new unworn springs that are the right size up front and worn saggy springs in the rear
#8
11-05-2008, 08:29 PM
RE: She feels loose, PtII...input?
Holy christ I went to Advanced Auto tonight and priced out the parts......close to 275 bucks.....the guy on Ebay wants 150........Ill start tearing her apart soon!
#9
09-27-2009, 10:23 PM
Time to resurrect this post. Ive replaced every suspension part on the car. (Even springs) My car STILL fights me on higher speed turns. Ill turn (lets say left) and the nose pulls right again after a second or two. Its hard to explain, but imagine the car will shimmy out, I pull it back into the turn, a second later she pulls out of the turn again. Not bad below 50mph, but when Im hammering it on a curving entrance ramp or snapping thru highway traffic, its scares the hell out of me. Im assuming that because Ive replaced everything else, the gearbox can be the only culprit. Two questions....
1) Will the adjustment nut help with this issue? If so, walk me thru it again.
2) Anybody got a line on refurbed gearboxes? Vatozone wants 170 for them and Im just not ready to pay that...........
1) Will the adjustment nut help with this issue? If so, walk me thru it again.
2) Anybody got a line on refurbed gearboxes? Vatozone wants 170 for them and Im just not ready to pay that...........
Last edited by ScottD; 09-27-2009 at 10:26 PM.
#10
09-27-2009, 10:41 PM
refurb no. but there is a junkyard that im gonna need to make a run too soon that has about, oh.. the entire production of third gens. I could snag ya one, but it wouldnt be refurb. but at least you could get it rebuilt, and have it to pull the old one out and get a new one in. no waiting around. There are a few IROCs. Want one of those?