Car runs like crap (when warm)!
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In the Staging Lanes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 64
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Car runs like crap (when warm)!
first off i have a 1989 camaro rs with the 5.0 tbi v8 with headers, and no cat. im getting code 43 and 32. with that being said she runs like crap when she gets warm. ive been getting these codes almost everyday when i go to work about 15 miles on the highway and 5 city. ill be driving fine until the light comes on the my car wont accelerate. for example ill get on the on ramp and put the pedal to the floor and only get going to about 50 by the end of the ramp. once i get to about 75 i set the cruise and she runs fine rpms are maybe 100 higher. however i wouldnt dare try to pass someone. here is the kicker i smell gas fumes in my car and gas mileage is about 15 on the highway. ive already taken off the egr and checked it and it looks good. my dad and brother seem to think a cylinder drops out. which makes sense except it only does it when its warm (220). it has gotten very close to red lining on occasion but never has. the plan is to check all the wires and distributor cap this weekend to check for shorts or corrosion. any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Overdrive Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,354
From: Spanaway, WA
OK here us what I have found for ya. Some of it makes sense to your symptoms.
32: Unknown Malfunction
32: EGR Malfunction
43: Knock sensor circuit open or shorted.
43: Timing module malfunction
43: Ignition module malfunction
These are different codes based on different engine configurations but I am going to figure this info will do you the most good.
CODE 32
32: Unknown Malfunction
32: EGR Malfunction
43: Knock sensor circuit open or shorted.
43: Timing module malfunction
43: Ignition module malfunction
These are different codes based on different engine configurations but I am going to figure this info will do you the most good.
CODE 32
Trouble Code 32 indicates that the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve diaphragm is not where the ECM expects it to be. The ECM controls the diaphragm with a Pulse-Width Modulated (PWM) waveform. The EGR has a vacuum bleed solenoid that adjusts the vacuum applied to the EGR valve based on this pulse width. If there is sufficient vacuum at the EGR valve, a switch closes to send a signal back to the ECM. The absence of this signal is the bases for code 32.
The conditions for setting this code are:
- no vacuum to EGR (switch open), and
- Code 33 or 34 (MAF error) is not present, and
- engine running and LV8 is less than 100, and
- coolant temperature is > 118 deg F (48 deg C), and
- the EGR solenoid duty cycle is < 65%, and
- the above conditions are met for more than 25 seconds
Typical causes for this code include:
1) Faulty EGR valve-to-ECM connection
2) Plugged EGR passages and/or sticking EGR valve
3) Defective EGR valve
4) Defective ECM
CODE 43
Trouble Code 43 indicates that there may be a malfunction in the Electronic Spark Control (ESC) circuit.
2) Plugged EGR passages and/or sticking EGR valve
3) Defective EGR valve
4) Defective ECM
CODE 43
Trouble Code 43 indicates that there may be a malfunction in the Electronic Spark Control (ESC) circuit.
ESC is used to sense spark knock (pinging) and retard the timing to eliminate it. A knock sensor (located at the rear of the engine block) sends signals to an ESC module which then signals the ECM that knocking is being detected. The ECM will retard the timing by as much as 20 degrees in 1 degree increments. A loss of knock sensor signal or loss of ground at the ESC module will cause the signal at the ECM to remain high. The ECM will act as if no knock is present, and may possibly result in engine damage, if there is detonation.
Loss of the ESC signal to the ECM will cause the ECM to constantly retard the timing to its maximum. This results in sluggish performance and a Code 43.
The conditions for setting this code are:
- Engine is running
- ESC input signal has been low more than 2.23 seconds
Typical causes for this code include:
1) Open or shorted knock sensor
2) Loose knock sensor
3) Excessive mechanical noise within engine
4) Improper or incorrectly installed PROM or CALPACK in the ECM or defective ECM
5) Intermittent open in the EST line to the ignition module
All of this will cause the drivability issues you are describing. Once the car is warm it runs in closed loop mode which uses input from sensors to make decisions on timing and fuel injector pulse time. In open loop mode the engine's timings are predetermined and the EGR system is not operating in open loop.
Massey
2) Loose knock sensor
3) Excessive mechanical noise within engine
4) Improper or incorrectly installed PROM or CALPACK in the ECM or defective ECM
5) Intermittent open in the EST line to the ignition module
All of this will cause the drivability issues you are describing. Once the car is warm it runs in closed loop mode which uses input from sensors to make decisions on timing and fuel injector pulse time. In open loop mode the engine's timings are predetermined and the EGR system is not operating in open loop.
Massey
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,015
From: Tokeland, Washington
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i got conflicting code defenitions. or maybe not. lol i think one is for tbi and one for tpi but not real sure. do u have a knock sensor?
32. Fault in barometric pressure sensor circuit OR Fault in exhaust gas recirculation valve diagnostic switch OR Fault in electronic vacuum regulator valve
43. Low voltage at electronic spark timing circuit
DTC - 32 EGR system failure
DTC - 43 Knock sensor error
http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/egr.shtml
32. Fault in barometric pressure sensor circuit OR Fault in exhaust gas recirculation valve diagnostic switch OR Fault in electronic vacuum regulator valve
43. Low voltage at electronic spark timing circuit
DTC - 32 EGR system failure
DTC - 43 Knock sensor error
http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/egr.shtml
Last edited by craby; Jun 2, 2010 at 04:41 PM.
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January 2010 ROTM Winner
January 2010 ROTM Winner
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,306
From: The 'Burbs of Chicago
Yes, he has a knock sensor.
I'd hafta say that the egr error code would be with the controls instead of the valve itself. If you block off and remove the valve completely, it will not trip an error code. The egr valve doesn't have an electrical connection to it as in newer models, so the system doesn't know if one is there or not. The computer may think it has the egr valve under control, but the valve is downstream from the controls with no return diagnostics to raise a red flag. However, a bad egr valve will make the engine run like crap, so don't assume it's good just because it didn't look at you funny.
I'd hafta say that the egr error code would be with the controls instead of the valve itself. If you block off and remove the valve completely, it will not trip an error code. The egr valve doesn't have an electrical connection to it as in newer models, so the system doesn't know if one is there or not. The computer may think it has the egr valve under control, but the valve is downstream from the controls with no return diagnostics to raise a red flag. However, a bad egr valve will make the engine run like crap, so don't assume it's good just because it didn't look at you funny.
Thread Starter
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In the Staging Lanes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 64
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
well i "think" i might have got it narrowed down. i bought a new egr in 2007 and installed it, and a new one a few days ago im going to test run and eliminate it tonight. i also already tried blocking the egr and the codes still came on. after that i am going to give that esc/knock sensor a try because in all honesty something involving that sounds like it could be bad. i talked to my dad again and he told me while he was driving it and the code came on, so he shifted it into neutral and revved it. guess what it backfired, but it idles BEAUTIFUL. this is leading me to believe that the timing is messed up while driving. i didnt know what massey posted before he posted it and that little piece is quite useful to know.
"The ECM will retard the timing by as much as 20 degrees in 1 degree increments. A loss of knock sensor signal or loss of ground at the ESC module will cause the signal at the ECM to remain high. The ECM will act as if no knock is present, and may possibly result in engine damage, if there is detonation.
Loss of the ESC signal to the ECM will cause the ECM to constantly retard the timing to its maximum. This results in sluggish performance and a Code 43."
and to you jonusb2 STOP WASTING OUR TIME WITH SPAM!!!!!
"The ECM will retard the timing by as much as 20 degrees in 1 degree increments. A loss of knock sensor signal or loss of ground at the ESC module will cause the signal at the ECM to remain high. The ECM will act as if no knock is present, and may possibly result in engine damage, if there is detonation.
Loss of the ESC signal to the ECM will cause the ECM to constantly retard the timing to its maximum. This results in sluggish performance and a Code 43."
and to you jonusb2 STOP WASTING OUR TIME WITH SPAM!!!!!
Thread Starter
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In the Staging Lanes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 64
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
all right here is the update: havent fixed the problem.
i replaced the knock sensor and swapped in a different esc module, neither helped.
i checked the distributor cap, wires, both like new.
also forgot to mention this: my car acts crappy under the same conditions but not everytime, and sometimes get this nasty smell inside the car, unburnt gas and either burning coolant or electical.
at the moment code 32 is not coming on, just code 43.
this is where i need help:
my heater core went bad last summer and leaked for some time without me knowing before i replaced it. i cant remember but is the heater core above the ecm or could coolant realistically get into/on my ecm?
lastly does anyone know where i might be able to get an ecm from either cheap (the junkyard didnt have one) or returnable (i know autozone doesnt take back electronic parts)?
im afraid it almost to the point of paying a mechanic 80 bucks an hour to get her back in shape
i replaced the knock sensor and swapped in a different esc module, neither helped.
i checked the distributor cap, wires, both like new.
also forgot to mention this: my car acts crappy under the same conditions but not everytime, and sometimes get this nasty smell inside the car, unburnt gas and either burning coolant or electical.
at the moment code 32 is not coming on, just code 43.
this is where i need help:
my heater core went bad last summer and leaked for some time without me knowing before i replaced it. i cant remember but is the heater core above the ecm or could coolant realistically get into/on my ecm?
lastly does anyone know where i might be able to get an ecm from either cheap (the junkyard didnt have one) or returnable (i know autozone doesnt take back electronic parts)?
im afraid it almost to the point of paying a mechanic 80 bucks an hour to get her back in shape
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