You lost me with the deja vu thing. Idle wasn't 2000 rpm yesterday, it was 1600. My comment was about an actual idle though, not a 1500+ idle. "It's likely your distributor is at full advance at that point" is that a confirmation that it should be all in at 2000? I'm heading out right now to fire it up and see what happens today. I'll advance it more first, plus I forgot to pull the plugs and increase the gaps again so I'll do that too. It's a balmy 42 degrees outside right now with 30 mph winds, curious how it'll start now that it's cooler outside.

 

I advanced the timing a little more like discussed, regapped the plugs to .045 and started up the engine. It started right up like usual but took several minutes of running before it was warmed up enough to run on it's own. It stalled a few times because I was trying to keep the rpm steady around the 1500 rpm mark but ran like it did yesterday after 5 min. or so of warming up. RPM was right where it was yesterday in the clip and I checked timing, which showed 30 btdc at 1700 rpm. I watched the header tubes and within 2 minutes of running the header tubes again started to glow. I shut of off, advanced the distributor a bit more again and after 10 minutes of cool down for the headers, started the engine again. Timing showed 33-34 this time and again the tubes started to glow within 2 minutes of running. So, even with the timing set where it's supposed to be and the engine running on it's own the tubes are still glowing red. I just don't get it!!

 

lol, it was in reference to the recent "advance the timing, might be all in at 2,000 rpm" discussion, which was covered a while ago with no success.
Sheesh, now we're gonna have to break out the "top shelf thinking caps"!!

 

I'd try advancing it a couple more degrees, and then see if you can turn the idle down. Advancing should not only allow it to idle, but also stop the headers from glowing. Just don't go more than a couple degrees, and check it again. If it gets to a point your engine cranks slow, or hard, don't advance it any further.

 

I was more or less just teasing about being lost on the deja vu Chuck. I knew what you were referring to but wasn't sure if you were confirming that timing should be all in at 2000 or when you said "it might be all in" if that was a bad thing. If there's a higher echelon of thinking caps to be worn sir, then please, by all means, let me know your size?!


I'll advance it more yet tomorrow then Vall. And here I was excited to finally get a timing light on there showing it where it's supposed to be. I keep thinking back a couple weeks ago where the timing was showing over 40 and the tubes were still glowing, remember? Aside from timing, what else could make 'em do that? I know you've stated valve lash several times before, but if they weren't closing all the way, would the engine be running as well as it is when it's actually running? It actually sounds really good when it's running, throttle response is awesome and there's no other noises that I can hear. I just couldn't see how I got any valves set too tight. I tightened to zero lash with my fingers, then another half turn after that, that's it!

 

Yes, it would be running well indeed, but pipes would glow red, and idle wouldn't go lower, as that's when incomplete valve closure would become an issue. If you could drive it, you'd also notice it cutting out, or not revving well under load if valves weren't fully closing.
These are all things I've experienced with an engine that had the lash set too tight, and coincidentally what I went through with starting up my new SBC in the Austin this summer. I adjusted all the valves several times with the engine off, and it still wouldn't run well in gear, or idle down. I got so frustrated I closed the garage and left it for nearly a month. Finally decided to grab my old cut open valve covers, and put them on, so I could adjust the valves without making a mess of my new engine. Got it warmed up enough to run, and started one at a time backing off each rocker until it rattled, and then turning it down until it just got quiet. After each valve adjustment, the engine rpm rose a little, and as I went through I had to lower the idle rpm continuously as it rose. The rocker oiling also got better and better as I adjusted, and the exhaust smell of rich gas gradually went away.
I've always set my valves cold with the engine off, and never had an issue with what appeared to be lifter pump up before. I have Crower Cam Saver lifters in the Austin, and never used Crower, or this lifter before. But I do know now that some just defy setting cold with the engine off, and adjusting them running is never a bad thing.

 

I will cut the tops back on one of these old sets of valve covers to use while checking/setting lash. Again, I fully understand what you're saying about the possibility of them being set too tight. The way I set them by having both lifters on the base circle and setting lash with my fingers while moving the pushrod up and down, then going another half turn left me all but certain they'd be too loose, not the other way around. There's no way I can be completely certain about it so I'll try what you're suggesting. I spent over 3 hours searching and reading about possible causes and symptoms being exhibited by my engine and of the two recurring culprits, I'm pretty darn sure it's not running lean. The other was (as previously stated) timing too retarded. The idle issue that others experienced similar to what's going on with mine was found to be vacuum leaks, one thing I have not really checked for. I've got some starting fluid (some say to use that, others say carb cleaner) and will try some sprays around the carb base and intake mounting bolts to check for leaks. I'm also waiting on the arrival of my shiny new HF vacuum gauge on a side note. I'm going to be honest and say that it is rather intimidating to see the header tubes start glowing red as quick as they do once I finally get the engine to stay running. Not that I would even be comfortable doing it for very long, but how long would it be ok to leave the engine running when the tubes are getting so hot so quickly like that? I'm going to need some time to loosen all those rockers with it running obviously.

 

Carb cleaner, no, that stuff loosens paint.
Starting fluid, that's not as bad, but it's still a flammable liquid.
The better thing to use is a propane torch with the valve cracked open but not lit. You'll still get the same increased idle if there's a vacuum leak, but without any residue-mess-flammable liquid left behind.
Another thought I had, since you brought up vacuum leak, is between the manifold and heads. Did you have your heads shaved, or was the block decked? If so, the intake manifold needs to be shaved/angle matched. If that's not done, you stand a chance of having a leak internally (loose sealing ports at the bottom) where you can't test from the outside.

 

The heads weren't shaved nor block decked. I just checked with starting fluid, no change in idle/quality whatsoever. I sprayed a quick shot on all 4 sides of carb, both sides of intake on mounting bolts and intake to head on both sides. I read to put your hand over the carb to check for internal vacuum leaks, it's supposed to stall immediately if you're good, and it did. Timing is advanced to 35 btdc on the tape and it was running at 1600 rpm, header tubes started to glow but I'd have to say not as bad. I didn't bother leaving it running when I noticed the glowing start, glowing is glowing. One thing discovered however, it's driver side only that's glowing. I'll leave it running longer tomorrow so I can be certain. The finish on the stainless tubes is totally different right now from side to side. Would that indicate a carb issue? It's a single plane intake though, not sure how one would be able to check that. I got an old valve cover out and cut the top on it so I can fold it back to check the rockers. I'd like to get some thoughts about only one side glowing before I start messing with the rockers I think.

 

I set my valves in a similar fashion to what you did, and found the extra 1/2 turn was too much. I set mine with the engine off, and the same check for play on the pushrod, plus 1/2 turn. Still too tight, and thus the running check. Once I had all the valves set to clatter, and then return until they stopped; I added 1/4 turn. So far it cleared up all my issues, and is running well. Only thing I don't like about setting the valves with both valves on the base circle, is it's nearly impossible to tell if you're really on the base circle on both lobes. I've found it's easier to set the valves one at a time, and set the intake just as you see the exhaust start to open. Then set the exhaust just as you see the intake start to open. This method guarantees that both are on their base circle when you set them.
When you cut the top open on the old valve covers, be sure to cut around the sides on each end, and the side towards the intake manifold. Then bolt the valve cover to an old head, or the head on the car, and grab the edge and bend it straight up. This will give full access to the rockers, and the top that you bent open will shield the oil from being tossed out on the headers.
If one side is glowing sooner than the other, it could be the valve adjustment is slightly different from one side to the other.