newbie with a vision
#1
12-14-2010, 03:35 PM
newbie with a vision
Hi guys-
I am 20 yrs old, graduating from college in a year and the time has come to turn dreams into action.
My love for cars started with my first set of wheels (my grandpa's 88 5 series bmw). The car ran well enough but for me there was nothing better- and I felt like I always had a dear friend sitting next to me (may he rest).
Unfortunately mother dearest wanted me in a raised bumper- alas i was given her chevy suburban, and my parents never supported my enthusiast dreams.
I have done a very nice job of saving $$ since 15 or so, and have stacked away close to 20 grand. As i said i will be graduating with 0 student loans (academic scholly), and as my graduation gift to myself I want to take a year or two before grad school to work in a bar and take on a project car.
My objective is to do a build on a 1st gen camaro (67 or 68). I don't really care about staying 100% true to classic specs, resale value, or building the fastest/coolest car on the road. I just want to assemble one with a little soul power. I have casually driven a fair number of cars, muscle and modern, with limited track experience in an m3, but a neighbor's 68 rs felt the most natural by far.
I have a little shop knowledge too, but mostly just one-day tinkering jobs. My secondary objective for the build will be to learn about the tools, mechanics, and maintenance of owning a performance car. Obviously there will be things i can't do myself, and i do know some professional garages in town. But within reason, I want to do as much as I can myself- not just to save dinero.
I joined the 4m looking for friends with solid advice on how I can make this experience more successful. Such as tips for specific issues like evaluating a car/roller for sale, finding parts, options (picking gear/chain/belts or considering rear end ratios, etc)...But generally, good sources of info for a newbie enthusiast. I hope you guys will drill me, I don't want any leaks in my ship.
I believe in doing a job right, so if i succeed, this will be the only car I ever *work* on. Thanks for reading such a mercilessly long post.
I am 20 yrs old, graduating from college in a year and the time has come to turn dreams into action.
My love for cars started with my first set of wheels (my grandpa's 88 5 series bmw). The car ran well enough but for me there was nothing better- and I felt like I always had a dear friend sitting next to me (may he rest).
Unfortunately mother dearest wanted me in a raised bumper- alas i was given her chevy suburban, and my parents never supported my enthusiast dreams.
I have done a very nice job of saving $$ since 15 or so, and have stacked away close to 20 grand. As i said i will be graduating with 0 student loans (academic scholly), and as my graduation gift to myself I want to take a year or two before grad school to work in a bar and take on a project car.
My objective is to do a build on a 1st gen camaro (67 or 68). I don't really care about staying 100% true to classic specs, resale value, or building the fastest/coolest car on the road. I just want to assemble one with a little soul power. I have casually driven a fair number of cars, muscle and modern, with limited track experience in an m3, but a neighbor's 68 rs felt the most natural by far.
I have a little shop knowledge too, but mostly just one-day tinkering jobs. My secondary objective for the build will be to learn about the tools, mechanics, and maintenance of owning a performance car. Obviously there will be things i can't do myself, and i do know some professional garages in town. But within reason, I want to do as much as I can myself- not just to save dinero.
I joined the 4m looking for friends with solid advice on how I can make this experience more successful. Such as tips for specific issues like evaluating a car/roller for sale, finding parts, options (picking gear/chain/belts or considering rear end ratios, etc)...But generally, good sources of info for a newbie enthusiast. I hope you guys will drill me, I don't want any leaks in my ship.
I believe in doing a job right, so if i succeed, this will be the only car I ever *work* on. Thanks for reading such a mercilessly long post.
#2
12-14-2010, 05:20 PM
welcome to the forum and youve deff come to the right place for advice on this project
first thing you need to do is come up with what you want specifically and how much money your willing to spend on the car
have you found a car yet or still looking if not make sure you get a car as whole as possible as original parts are getting hard to find ie window trim and the other stupid little things altho there is a good chance of finding reproduction parts (im not to sure i have never looked into first gens)
good luck with your build and again welcome
first thing you need to do is come up with what you want specifically and how much money your willing to spend on the car
have you found a car yet or still looking if not make sure you get a car as whole as possible as original parts are getting hard to find ie window trim and the other stupid little things altho there is a good chance of finding reproduction parts (im not to sure i have never looked into first gens)
good luck with your build and again welcome
#3
12-14-2010, 05:37 PM
Welcome to the forums.
OK you answered the first question and that is what generation do I want. The next thing I would ask is what do you want the car to do? By that I mean do you want a sweet looking show car that only gets taken out on sunny days? A daily driver? Weekend warrior on the 1320? etc... I will agree that the first gens (69 is my fav) has classic lines, fun to drive and will turn heads but IMO these cars lack alot in the handling department. There are mods you can do to help but at the end of the day you will prolly get a little better than 2nd gens but not as good as 3rd or 4th gens. Engine choices are pretty unlimited, there are even K members for the first gens that will saddle up an LS series engine for modern power. 20K will get you a decient driver but it will not put you with much left for doing the mods and stuff I feel you want to do with your car by what you wrote in your post. If you like the old car look and want to get the most out of your $$$ I would take a serious look at the 2nd gen Camaros. They have good lines, plenty of power options, the car is easier to get parts for, safer, handles better out of the box and can be made to handle like a 3rd gen easily. 2nd gen camaros have 3 variations to them. 70-73, old school bumpers, flat nose, 4 round tail lights. 74-77 Big bumper cars. Sloped forward nose, large "safety" bumpers, wrap around tail lights. 78-81 (my favs) integrated bumpers, full taillights, nose still slopes forward. The interior has 2 versions 70-78 wrap around style and 79-81 block style. Here where I live you can pick up a nice running decient looking 2nd gen for around $2000-$3000 and really nice ones for $5000-$8000. That will leave you quite a few more pennies in your pocket for things like rims, tunes, paint, apholstery, and engine stuffs. To me 3rd gens are ok... they lack the style of the 1st and 2nd gens, they are everywhere and parts are everywhere. The safety is alot better than the previous models, handling is better, there is not as many engine options since the car is now 100% unibody, and you are starting to see the car being built around the powertrain. 3rd gen computers are rudementry at best in the early ones and ok at best in the later models. 4th gen IMO is the best performance for the buck but the least "classic" in body lines. The 98+ cars come out of the box with a LS1 engine putting up about 315+ HP. These cars are modern cars and the computer and BCM are boss and in control of what you do. Safety is 5 star front and rear and 4 star side. There are performance parts still being made and are easy to get, parts are more abundant than the 3rd gens, Dealers will still service them. Around here you can pick up a nice SS for about $10K and the 2002 Anaversary SS will prolly take your whole $20K but leave you with a rare car that will only go up in value as it ages. Z28s can be had for $3000-$8000 for something really nice.
So to sum up what I said... The best bang for the $$$ in a classic car go with a 2nd gen and for the best handling out of the box a 4th gen. If your budget for purchase is only $20K and you are willing to put that and more into your toy shop around for a 1st gen.
Oh and each car is going to have its own learning curve. A 1st or 2nd gen is not only going to have you learning mechanics, but you are going to need to learn alot about body work, especally rust repair. 3rd and 4th gens are going to teach you alot about computers and fuel injection systems. And to be honest I will one day own a 2nd gen but I will not own another carburated car, FI is the way to go.
Ok I think I have talked enough feel free to ask any one here anything you can think of, we do our best to help people out.
Massey
OK you answered the first question and that is what generation do I want. The next thing I would ask is what do you want the car to do? By that I mean do you want a sweet looking show car that only gets taken out on sunny days? A daily driver? Weekend warrior on the 1320? etc... I will agree that the first gens (69 is my fav) has classic lines, fun to drive and will turn heads but IMO these cars lack alot in the handling department. There are mods you can do to help but at the end of the day you will prolly get a little better than 2nd gens but not as good as 3rd or 4th gens. Engine choices are pretty unlimited, there are even K members for the first gens that will saddle up an LS series engine for modern power. 20K will get you a decient driver but it will not put you with much left for doing the mods and stuff I feel you want to do with your car by what you wrote in your post. If you like the old car look and want to get the most out of your $$$ I would take a serious look at the 2nd gen Camaros. They have good lines, plenty of power options, the car is easier to get parts for, safer, handles better out of the box and can be made to handle like a 3rd gen easily. 2nd gen camaros have 3 variations to them. 70-73, old school bumpers, flat nose, 4 round tail lights. 74-77 Big bumper cars. Sloped forward nose, large "safety" bumpers, wrap around tail lights. 78-81 (my favs) integrated bumpers, full taillights, nose still slopes forward. The interior has 2 versions 70-78 wrap around style and 79-81 block style. Here where I live you can pick up a nice running decient looking 2nd gen for around $2000-$3000 and really nice ones for $5000-$8000. That will leave you quite a few more pennies in your pocket for things like rims, tunes, paint, apholstery, and engine stuffs. To me 3rd gens are ok... they lack the style of the 1st and 2nd gens, they are everywhere and parts are everywhere. The safety is alot better than the previous models, handling is better, there is not as many engine options since the car is now 100% unibody, and you are starting to see the car being built around the powertrain. 3rd gen computers are rudementry at best in the early ones and ok at best in the later models. 4th gen IMO is the best performance for the buck but the least "classic" in body lines. The 98+ cars come out of the box with a LS1 engine putting up about 315+ HP. These cars are modern cars and the computer and BCM are boss and in control of what you do. Safety is 5 star front and rear and 4 star side. There are performance parts still being made and are easy to get, parts are more abundant than the 3rd gens, Dealers will still service them. Around here you can pick up a nice SS for about $10K and the 2002 Anaversary SS will prolly take your whole $20K but leave you with a rare car that will only go up in value as it ages. Z28s can be had for $3000-$8000 for something really nice.
So to sum up what I said... The best bang for the $$$ in a classic car go with a 2nd gen and for the best handling out of the box a 4th gen. If your budget for purchase is only $20K and you are willing to put that and more into your toy shop around for a 1st gen.
Oh and each car is going to have its own learning curve. A 1st or 2nd gen is not only going to have you learning mechanics, but you are going to need to learn alot about body work, especally rust repair. 3rd and 4th gens are going to teach you alot about computers and fuel injection systems. And to be honest I will one day own a 2nd gen but I will not own another carburated car, FI is the way to go.
Ok I think I have talked enough feel free to ask any one here anything you can think of, we do our best to help people out.
Massey
#4
12-14-2010, 07:33 PM
Thanks to both of you- yes having clear priorities is critical considering that i will be buying into a lifestyle.
Ideally, I will find as clean/complete a survivor as possible, and immediately strip it down. As i said, its as much about learning the car as having the car for me. I don't really see myself working towards a daily driver, as I have a healthy truck that should take me at least another 150k. Even if i did need to use the camaro as a daily, that would only fly in grad school. Once i enter the workforce, if my tacoma isn't still alive, i will have to acquiesce for an economical, conservative office car.
Basically, I want a weekend warrior that I can have fun in, and is *reasonably* reliable. Running an ls would be sweet...someday. But from what I know it is best to start with small stuff, and plug in the powertrain last. (i saw an e30 m3 once with an ls2....one crazy guy, one bizarre car). I know the 20k is the start. But my position is that practically 100% of whatever i take home working in limbo before I jump back to the frying pan will go to the car. So money will be slow and steady.
I am pretty stuck on the first gen, M***ey, but I will take your advice and go tirekicking around town in some 2nd gens. Who knows. I definitely want the cl***ic look (fits my attitude) altho I don't need a museum-caliber garage. I was on craigslist earlier, and there is a gentleman in town selling a 67 roller for 6k...i haven't gotten a reply from him yet, and the only info in the ad is that it has no engine/trans installed --although he says he has a 454 (condition?) and misc parts that come with--no clue what else is/is not there. From pics it is missing the front clip. He does give the vin and manufacturers codes.
Ideally, I will find as clean/complete a survivor as possible, and immediately strip it down. As i said, its as much about learning the car as having the car for me. I don't really see myself working towards a daily driver, as I have a healthy truck that should take me at least another 150k. Even if i did need to use the camaro as a daily, that would only fly in grad school. Once i enter the workforce, if my tacoma isn't still alive, i will have to acquiesce for an economical, conservative office car.
Basically, I want a weekend warrior that I can have fun in, and is *reasonably* reliable. Running an ls would be sweet...someday. But from what I know it is best to start with small stuff, and plug in the powertrain last. (i saw an e30 m3 once with an ls2....one crazy guy, one bizarre car). I know the 20k is the start. But my position is that practically 100% of whatever i take home working in limbo before I jump back to the frying pan will go to the car. So money will be slow and steady.
I am pretty stuck on the first gen, M***ey, but I will take your advice and go tirekicking around town in some 2nd gens. Who knows. I definitely want the cl***ic look (fits my attitude) altho I don't need a museum-caliber garage. I was on craigslist earlier, and there is a gentleman in town selling a 67 roller for 6k...i haven't gotten a reply from him yet, and the only info in the ad is that it has no engine/trans installed --although he says he has a 454 (condition?) and misc parts that come with--no clue what else is/is not there. From pics it is missing the front clip. He does give the vin and manufacturers codes.
#5
12-14-2010, 07:37 PM
Again thanks for the welcome, I appreciate your guys' time. Means a lot, and hopefully someday I can do the same thing for some kid down the line.
#6
12-14-2010, 07:38 PM
Welcome! I agree with M***ey, the decent 1st gens are rarer than you might think. Unless it has all the chrome, little plastic and hard rubber pieces in good shape, your talking big bucks or no luck getting them. Depending on where you live, you can find 2nd and 3rd gens in pretty decent shape, although I wouldn't touch the 3's, just my opinion. Check Craigslist daily, the really hot deals go fast, it took me 6 months of checking at least every other day to find my 4th gen Z28 and almost missed it, I just happened to be the first one that showed up with cash. You will get a lot of great advice from these "long time" guys, they know what they are talking about and won't steer you wrong. Listen to what they don't say as well. Good luck, post lots of pics and again WELCOME!!
#10
12-14-2010, 09:29 PM
Just guessing, but I think your gonna run out of cash quick going that route. I would guess 14-15k landed for one, then you have to have all the hardware, wiring, trim pieces, etc, etc. The hardest, most rediculous pricey things to find are the trim pieces. But, that's a way to go.