How Big is Too Big? 500ci GenIII SBC!
#1
02-21-2009, 09:09 PM
How Big is Too Big? 500ci GenIII SBC!
This article can be found in the April 2009 Chevy HighPerformance magazine (or at least thats what it says... Couple months ahead here).
Before this article the largest I had seen was in the 460's, but what really makes this build unique? This is NOT (Lemme stress here, NOT!) an LSX block!!!! This build utilizes a little imagination, some grass-roots style engine building, and a now run-of-the-mill LS2 block. Thats right. GenIII factory technology producing 500ci of awesome. Enjoy the read:
CHP Article
The above link has some of the nitty-gritty involved in the build as well as dyno results and track times in a 98 camaro. At the moment I am not seeing a total build cost, but with a $14k shortblock alone I would assume this guy can get up there. Definitly easier and cheaper ways to run bottom 10's, but you may be hard pressed to fine one containing so much raw "awesome"!
Before this article the largest I had seen was in the 460's, but what really makes this build unique? This is NOT (Lemme stress here, NOT!) an LSX block!!!! This build utilizes a little imagination, some grass-roots style engine building, and a now run-of-the-mill LS2 block. Thats right. GenIII factory technology producing 500ci of awesome. Enjoy the read:
Original Chevy High Performance Magazine
500CI Chevy LS1 Engine Build - How To Build A 500CI LS1
Thanks To A Trick Deck Plate And Some Cutting-Edge Machining, Now Anyone Can Build A Gargantuan LS-Series Small-Block
By Stephen Kim
Photography by Stephen Kim
Just throw us in the looney bin. In the realm of cubic inches, 500 is a figure reserved for tall-deck Rat motors and Cadillacs. Any notion of ascertaining that level of displacement out of a small-block-or even most big-blocks-is pure crazy talk.
Sanity and common sense aside, we're here to say that it can be done. In fact, it's already been done and here's the kicker: It's been done with a production LS2 block. The motor in question, built by the School of Automotive Machinists in Houston, kicks out 717 hp and 630 lb-ft on pump gas with a dinky 248/254 at 0.050 inch hydraulic cam. The best news is that this isn't some custom one-off build. Anyone can now assemble a 500ci LS-series motor using off-the-shelf parts.
The mastermind who makes it all possible is ERL Performance, best known for its handiwork in the import drag racing scene. In a high-boost world where displacement is at a premium, ERL has perfected the art of making tiny four-cylinder motors a bit less tiny with its innovate deck plates, essentially a slug of billet aluminum sandwiched between the block's deck surface and cylinder head. The added thickness affords a taller deck height and hence a longer stroke and more cubic inches. While it sounds more like an elaborate IED (improvised explosive device) than a viable engine technology, ERL's deck plate system has been proven time and again under the most grueling conditions. We're talking sub-150ci boosted four-bangers pushing close to 1,000 hp on production blocks.
Aware of ERL's credentials, engine builder extraordinaire and LS1 guru Judson Massingill of SAM asked the obvious question while at an industry trade show. "I saw that ERL was doing these amazing things with Imports and suggested that they should apply this same technology to V-8s," he recollects. "At the time, people were starting to really push the limits of the LS1 architecture, and a common problem with stroker motors was scuffing up the piston skirts as a result of pulling them too far out the bottom of the bores. I pointed out that since the cam is positioned so high in the LS2 block and because it has a 4.000-inch bore, they could get some serious displacement out of it with one of their deck plates. I really can't take any of the credit, because all I did was have one conversation with them and they took care of the rest. ERL's finished product is honestly some of the most beautiful machine work I have ever seen."
By increasing the LS2's deck height from 9.240 to 10.200 inches, ERL's Super Deck II block can swallow up a 4.500-inch stroke. Combined with a 4.202-inch bore, the result is 500 delicious cubes. Considering the Gen IV's bore spacing of 4.400 inches, that much bore may seem to push the envelope of strength on paper, but ERL has done its homework. "We use a Darton ductile iron sleeve, which is three times stronger than stock," explains Sean Ragains of ERL. "Also, our deck plate is designed so that when you torque down the head bolts, they apply clamping pressure right at the top of the cylinder sleeves instead of the deck surface. This directs pressure to a smaller surface area, which results in greater clamping force. The truss design of our deck plate also transmits loads below the deck surface and between the cylinder bores. The result of all this is an extremely strong block with excellent head gasket seal."
So just how much power can it handle? On a 200hp hit of spray, SAM's 500 cranked out 923 hp and 906 lb-ft on the dyno. Furthermore, while ERL suggests backing down to a 4.1250-inch bore on boosted or heavy nitrous applications, its customers are pushing out 1,500 hp in supercharged motors and 1,700 hp with turbos. That's staggering, to say the least, but there's more to ERL's setup than a deck plate, as we'll outline in this story. So enough babbling already and on with the build!
Quick Notes
The Build
A 500ci LS motor!
Bottom Line
717 hp and 630 lb-ft on pump gas
Price (short-block only)
$14,900
Get Your Own 500
If the prospect of 500 all-aluminum rippling cubes has already made you bash open your piggy bank, here's the skinny on how to get an ERL setup in your car. The Super Deck II system is sold as a turnkey short-block assembly for $14,900. If you provide your own LS2 core, ERL will knock $1,000 off the total. That price includes an ERL block, a Callies crankshaft, full internal balancing, Wiseco pistons, rings, bearings, billet main caps, main studs, bushed lifter bores, intake manifold adapter plates, longer head studs and pushrods, and a cam custom-ground to your application. All you need to add are cylinder heads, an intake manifold, and an oil pan. ERL offers bore sizes from 4.000 to 4.200 inches and will tailor compression to whatever ratio you chose.
500CI Chevy LS1 Engine Build - How To Build A 500CI LS1
BUILDSHEET
Block ERL Tall-Deck LS2
Bore 4.202
Stroke 4.500
Displacement 500 ci
Rod length 6.800
Deck height 0
Block height 10.200
Head gasket thickness 0.040
Main bearing clearance 0.0023-0.0025
Rod bearing clearance 0.0022-0.0025
Piston-to-wall clearance 0.005
Piston dome volume -28 cc
Piston compression height 1.150
Top ring gap 0.025
Second ring gap 0.025
Compression ratio 10.8:1
Camshaft (Comp Cams) 248/254-at-0.050; 0.647/0.647; 114
Installed centerline 114 degrees
Rocker ratio 1.7:1
Valves 2.200/1.615 intake/exhaust
Valvespring diameter 1.539
Valvespring seat pressure 150 lb
Valvespring open pressure 440 lb
Intake manifold Factory GM LS7
Fuel 93 octane unleaded
Measurements in inches unless otherwise noted
500CI Chevy LS1 Engine Build - How To Build A 500CI LS1
Thanks To A Trick Deck Plate And Some Cutting-Edge Machining, Now Anyone Can Build A Gargantuan LS-Series Small-Block
By Stephen Kim
Photography by Stephen Kim
Just throw us in the looney bin. In the realm of cubic inches, 500 is a figure reserved for tall-deck Rat motors and Cadillacs. Any notion of ascertaining that level of displacement out of a small-block-or even most big-blocks-is pure crazy talk.
Sanity and common sense aside, we're here to say that it can be done. In fact, it's already been done and here's the kicker: It's been done with a production LS2 block. The motor in question, built by the School of Automotive Machinists in Houston, kicks out 717 hp and 630 lb-ft on pump gas with a dinky 248/254 at 0.050 inch hydraulic cam. The best news is that this isn't some custom one-off build. Anyone can now assemble a 500ci LS-series motor using off-the-shelf parts.
The mastermind who makes it all possible is ERL Performance, best known for its handiwork in the import drag racing scene. In a high-boost world where displacement is at a premium, ERL has perfected the art of making tiny four-cylinder motors a bit less tiny with its innovate deck plates, essentially a slug of billet aluminum sandwiched between the block's deck surface and cylinder head. The added thickness affords a taller deck height and hence a longer stroke and more cubic inches. While it sounds more like an elaborate IED (improvised explosive device) than a viable engine technology, ERL's deck plate system has been proven time and again under the most grueling conditions. We're talking sub-150ci boosted four-bangers pushing close to 1,000 hp on production blocks.
Aware of ERL's credentials, engine builder extraordinaire and LS1 guru Judson Massingill of SAM asked the obvious question while at an industry trade show. "I saw that ERL was doing these amazing things with Imports and suggested that they should apply this same technology to V-8s," he recollects. "At the time, people were starting to really push the limits of the LS1 architecture, and a common problem with stroker motors was scuffing up the piston skirts as a result of pulling them too far out the bottom of the bores. I pointed out that since the cam is positioned so high in the LS2 block and because it has a 4.000-inch bore, they could get some serious displacement out of it with one of their deck plates. I really can't take any of the credit, because all I did was have one conversation with them and they took care of the rest. ERL's finished product is honestly some of the most beautiful machine work I have ever seen."
By increasing the LS2's deck height from 9.240 to 10.200 inches, ERL's Super Deck II block can swallow up a 4.500-inch stroke. Combined with a 4.202-inch bore, the result is 500 delicious cubes. Considering the Gen IV's bore spacing of 4.400 inches, that much bore may seem to push the envelope of strength on paper, but ERL has done its homework. "We use a Darton ductile iron sleeve, which is three times stronger than stock," explains Sean Ragains of ERL. "Also, our deck plate is designed so that when you torque down the head bolts, they apply clamping pressure right at the top of the cylinder sleeves instead of the deck surface. This directs pressure to a smaller surface area, which results in greater clamping force. The truss design of our deck plate also transmits loads below the deck surface and between the cylinder bores. The result of all this is an extremely strong block with excellent head gasket seal."
So just how much power can it handle? On a 200hp hit of spray, SAM's 500 cranked out 923 hp and 906 lb-ft on the dyno. Furthermore, while ERL suggests backing down to a 4.1250-inch bore on boosted or heavy nitrous applications, its customers are pushing out 1,500 hp in supercharged motors and 1,700 hp with turbos. That's staggering, to say the least, but there's more to ERL's setup than a deck plate, as we'll outline in this story. So enough babbling already and on with the build!
Quick Notes
The Build
A 500ci LS motor!
Bottom Line
717 hp and 630 lb-ft on pump gas
Price (short-block only)
$14,900
Get Your Own 500
If the prospect of 500 all-aluminum rippling cubes has already made you bash open your piggy bank, here's the skinny on how to get an ERL setup in your car. The Super Deck II system is sold as a turnkey short-block assembly for $14,900. If you provide your own LS2 core, ERL will knock $1,000 off the total. That price includes an ERL block, a Callies crankshaft, full internal balancing, Wiseco pistons, rings, bearings, billet main caps, main studs, bushed lifter bores, intake manifold adapter plates, longer head studs and pushrods, and a cam custom-ground to your application. All you need to add are cylinder heads, an intake manifold, and an oil pan. ERL offers bore sizes from 4.000 to 4.200 inches and will tailor compression to whatever ratio you chose.
500CI Chevy LS1 Engine Build - How To Build A 500CI LS1
BUILDSHEET
Block ERL Tall-Deck LS2
Bore 4.202
Stroke 4.500
Displacement 500 ci
Rod length 6.800
Deck height 0
Block height 10.200
Head gasket thickness 0.040
Main bearing clearance 0.0023-0.0025
Rod bearing clearance 0.0022-0.0025
Piston-to-wall clearance 0.005
Piston dome volume -28 cc
Piston compression height 1.150
Top ring gap 0.025
Second ring gap 0.025
Compression ratio 10.8:1
Camshaft (Comp Cams) 248/254-at-0.050; 0.647/0.647; 114
Installed centerline 114 degrees
Rocker ratio 1.7:1
Valves 2.200/1.615 intake/exhaust
Valvespring diameter 1.539
Valvespring seat pressure 150 lb
Valvespring open pressure 440 lb
Intake manifold Factory GM LS7
Fuel 93 octane unleaded
Measurements in inches unless otherwise noted
CHP Article
The above link has some of the nitty-gritty involved in the build as well as dyno results and track times in a 98 camaro. At the moment I am not seeing a total build cost, but with a $14k shortblock alone I would assume this guy can get up there. Definitly easier and cheaper ways to run bottom 10's, but you may be hard pressed to fine one containing so much raw "awesome"!
#3
02-21-2009, 11:10 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Helens, Oregon
Posts: 2,237
lol, spec, remember when we were talking about how big the small blocks are getting? I ALMOST called it, I said "what's next, a 502 sbc?". 500 is close enough. This is amazing!
#5
02-21-2009, 11:49 PM
on Speed's "Passtime" I saw a vette with a 466 (I think, maybe 468? Dunno, it was 460 something), and that was claimed to be the biggest u could get at the time (some time last year).
THAT motor, however was built from an LSX which allows for MUCH bigger bores. Bore specs dont mean a ton to me, because I dont know what the tolerances are, but using a factory ls2 block strikes me as somewhat insane. but from the article, it looks like most of those CI are coming from a ridiculous stroke. hello diesel style red lines lol
THAT motor, however was built from an LSX which allows for MUCH bigger bores. Bore specs dont mean a ton to me, because I dont know what the tolerances are, but using a factory ls2 block strikes me as somewhat insane. but from the article, it looks like most of those CI are coming from a ridiculous stroke. hello diesel style red lines lol
#6
02-22-2009, 12:22 AM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The 'Burbs of Chicago
Posts: 18,306
That is pretty awesome. Their claim "Now Anyone Can Build A Gargantuan LS-Series Small-Block" should come with a disclaimer....anyone with $15k to drop on a short block, that is!
And who needs high redlines? With the kind of torque that's putting out, you'll be ripping up the pavement even with tall gears in back.
And who needs high redlines? With the kind of torque that's putting out, you'll be ripping up the pavement even with tall gears in back.
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