lift is but one spec of a dozen parameters for a cam, and what are the emissions for these, and was dyno work done to validate any true HP increases. you seem to be forgetting the original question of wanting to simply throw a cam in a car with no other mods, how can you expect but maybe a few HP increase with this type mod. what is it your attempting to do with a camshaft?? facilitate more air flow and you will need more fuel to match right?? im sorry but a cam change will modify emissions and drivability. how big can you go with no other mods well usually the guys with dynos and a buttload of dollars in r&d will tell you when you buy thier cam( emissions compatible or computer compatible are terms they use) and if you study the specs for these i think youll find the numbers arent that radical from stock. check the specs for the lt1 vs.the lt4 lots of expensive parts for 30 HP and id guarantee they dont use the same tune /computer


my point still stands you cant throw the "3/4 or full race cam" into our new rigs with no other mods and end up happy, legal or lighter in the wallet replacing the destroyed parts kurt


curious what exactly are your mods AND specs that have allowed you to retain emissions and gain voluminous HP with no computer mods

 

this was on page one and, coincidentally in my first post addressed to you. the other mods you ask me about? well, this post also happened to address them. you must make the motor breath in and out. full boltons is a must before doing a cam of any size otherwise you are "pissing in the wind". I have made this very point on this forum time and time again.

the lt1/lt4 isnot a valid comparrison because its a factory upgrade "elite" package. considered by most lt1 owners to be a waste of money, similar to doing a full LS6 conversion for a 98+ fbody. for far cheaper you can go much bigger and make alot more power.

I am also one of the forums biggest proponents for custom tuning and have been waging a war on chips and mail order modules for a while. its my opinion that the only way to do it is either with well controlling software and a wideband, or on the dyno.

the OP asked what the problem was with doing a cam with no other mods. there are only 2 immediate problems: spring clearance, and powerband issues. both of which were addressed in this thread. is a rough tune going to cause his car to break down? not likely.

and a new map isnt even required for many cams, but this is dependant on the car itself and where the map is at due to modifications from the MAF. the VE tables contain areas that your stock car will just never hit. cyl airmass such that a stock car would need an SC in order to reach it. but alas, your VE table is equipped none the less. when I installed my cam, which is a 232/234 duration @.05", 595/598" 113LSA +3, my area of usage on the VE table dropped to higher cylinder airmass as compared to previous usage. this basically just means im drawin in more air with each breath. this is expected with a new cam. the computer was already equipped to handle the new flow from the factory. now, does it do it well? not really. its about a half afr unit off from where I want it to be, but this is the factory tune, and these tunes can vary WIDELY due to self modification. I also have long tube headers, a 3" off road exhaust, and a flopac. the only tuning we did was over a year ago and it was for the nitrous. the car was not tuned for the headers, exhaust, or cam, yet the only issue it has is its a little rich down low, and leans out a half afr unit (from where I want it, its actually spot on for an NA car, i just like 12.3ish afr for nitrous cars) lean up top.

as far as comparing to stock, the stock ls1 cam
202/210 int/exh @ 0.05" duration 0.496" / 0.496" int/exh lift 116 LSA
232/2340.595" / 0.598"113 lsa

i have no other way to say it. that is radically different than stock.

I never once said my car was emissions legal. its been "off road" since the first few months i owned it. thats not relavent in any way, shape, and/or form to this discussion. in fact, if i were to bring my car to

 

[:@] i like your mods and results. the op is , like most posting here, probably referencing his daily driver and for most emissions are an issue. there are lots of people who dont have the money for the racer and the daily version of thier toys so it was an assumption on my part to dispense advise that probably will help avoid problems this individual can ill afford to encounter.

if he would have asked "how do i make gobs more HP" and followed up with " i have a fat wallet and its not a street driven(emissions tested) car" then we could all chime in and bench race for decades

this is apples to oranges and i was assuming the guy wanted apple advice not all the possibilities under the sun

 

the op mentioned problems relating to install of "comp cam" brand or emissions or computer compatible???? again i assumed he meant brand and not merely an acceptable replacement for stock motor and emissions, if that were the case the answer would be no problem swap away. its the unknown i attemted to shy him away from to avoid the simplistic ideology of a cam swap producing lots of HP with little complications

 

if he is concerned with emissions I would most definitly steer him towards a small cam. even with supporting boltons, a larger cam will just not pass emissions. you are very right about that. even extensive tuning wont help. the only thing i really disagree with is the statement that things will break. especially with a smaller cam like a 218 or 224 the tune becomes less and less important because afr deviates less and less from stock tolerances. a smart plan of action would be to go to a shop and do a couple dyno runs and have your AFR checked to be sure everything is right. i dont consider it highly likely, but if your tune deviates far enough you most definitly will be replacing internal components within a couple months. its the same kind of risk as those guys who run nitrous untuned. generally, tunes arent exact, but they arent ideal either once mods are done.


i dont even know anymore..... are we in violent agreement yet?

 

i beleive he meant comp cam the brand. i havent seen any cams listed as computer compatable. most of the big name cams will list if special tuning is required, however i was under the impression that most people understood that a cam is not a "california mod"

 

Actually, since emissions vary from county to county it really depends on where you live whether it'll pass or not. You can actually run a pretty large cam and still have your car pass emissions, even here in Denver where the restrictions are pretty strict. If you can't pass on your power tune you can always tune the car a bit lean to pass emisssions and then load the performance tune back in as well.

 

you would have to tune out any SEL's, but yeah

 

i believe we can agree to agree. and i recall that there are at least a couple big well known cam companies who list and market thier cams as computer compatible. it may not always be in thier first few words of the description but it is mentioned in several ive seen. maybe summit and jegs ls1 and lt1 section for comp cams comes to mind kurt