Build Motor or Purchase Crate Engine?
#1
12-30-2010, 11:55 AM
Build Motor or Purchase Crate Engine?
Good Morning:
I thought I'd start a lively discussion as we approach the New Year.
Realize that I'm not a mechanic; have limited mechanical abilities, that will never change, so most work is being done by a shop/professional.
I'm at a point where I either need to have someone rebuild the current 350 engine that is 40 over with 2 bolt mains. Has old style double hump iron heads, mild crane cam (350 HP sbc recreation), 670 holley street avenger carb and edelbrock torquer manifold, hei ignition.
The current engine is very plain vanilla. My thought is that it's not really worth putting more money into. However, I'm not Ted Turner's long last son (unfortunately), so I don't have unlimited funds for our car at this time.
Many people that I know build their own cars and have told me that it was more economical to purchase a crate engine than buy all the parts and build from scratch. That’s up for debate
I would like a 400-425 HP SBC motor. I want something that will be fun to drive and something that I can take to the 1/8 or 1/4 strip once in awhile. Don't want anything too radical because we want to drive the car and enjoy it. We will be upgrading/rebuilding rear end with either a 3.73 or 4.10 posi that will go with a built 700R4 (OD for cruising) to replace our Turbo 400.
QUESTIONS:
1. Should I rebuild current engine or purchase a crate engine
2. If a crate engine, what should I be looking for or evaluating regarding the shop or business providing the motor? (GM, Blueprint, Patriot, ATK High Perf Engines)
3. Can you recommend a good, engine builder? Would prefer the DFW Area, but I’m open at this point in time.
Right now, I am building a spreadsheet to show the costs of all options available to me.
Then, I have to weigh the pros and cons. I'm trying to think of this from a long-term perspective. Don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish.
Thanks.
Jim T, Red Bomber
I thought I'd start a lively discussion as we approach the New Year.
Realize that I'm not a mechanic; have limited mechanical abilities, that will never change, so most work is being done by a shop/professional.
I'm at a point where I either need to have someone rebuild the current 350 engine that is 40 over with 2 bolt mains. Has old style double hump iron heads, mild crane cam (350 HP sbc recreation), 670 holley street avenger carb and edelbrock torquer manifold, hei ignition.
The current engine is very plain vanilla. My thought is that it's not really worth putting more money into. However, I'm not Ted Turner's long last son (unfortunately), so I don't have unlimited funds for our car at this time.
Many people that I know build their own cars and have told me that it was more economical to purchase a crate engine than buy all the parts and build from scratch. That’s up for debate
I would like a 400-425 HP SBC motor. I want something that will be fun to drive and something that I can take to the 1/8 or 1/4 strip once in awhile. Don't want anything too radical because we want to drive the car and enjoy it. We will be upgrading/rebuilding rear end with either a 3.73 or 4.10 posi that will go with a built 700R4 (OD for cruising) to replace our Turbo 400.
QUESTIONS:
1. Should I rebuild current engine or purchase a crate engine
2. If a crate engine, what should I be looking for or evaluating regarding the shop or business providing the motor? (GM, Blueprint, Patriot, ATK High Perf Engines)
3. Can you recommend a good, engine builder? Would prefer the DFW Area, but I’m open at this point in time.
Right now, I am building a spreadsheet to show the costs of all options available to me.
Then, I have to weigh the pros and cons. I'm trying to think of this from a long-term perspective. Don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish.
Thanks.
Jim T, Red Bomber
#3
12-30-2010, 10:09 PM
I would say it depends on the amount of time you have, tools and the money you want to spend. I have always wanted to rebuild an engine for myself. I would have to have a machine shop do all the machine work and help with determining which parts would need to be purchased to rebuild. I have limited tools and knowledge but have done a couple head gasket jobs, intake gasket jobs, etc but that is a long way from doing a complete engine, although, that is my goal some day. I just hate to think of spending all that money and doing something stupid or overlook something and smoke a couple grand with the twist of a swtich! 
I had my daughters motor rebuilt last year, stock except bored .030 over, and it cost me less than a crate engine but I guess that all depends on what your motor needs.
I had my daughters motor rebuilt last year, stock except bored .030 over, and it cost me less than a crate engine but I guess that all depends on what your motor needs.
#4
12-31-2010, 07:24 AM
Rebuilding a motor that is already .04 will most likely end with you finding a new block. We should break down "building" vs "rebuild" vs "refreash". IMO to rebuild a motor you put everything back to original specs. When done it is like new or better then new. Refreashing a motor would be rings and bearing, oil pump, all new seals and gaskets. Building a motor is like rebuilding + some redesign. When you build a motor you are going for something beyond what it already is.
Example of each: Connecting rod bearing
Refreash: Replace the bearing, use pastic gage to verify the clearance. If all is good your done.
Rebuild: Rods are removed cleaned resized and check for cracks. Crank is ground and the correct under size bearing are installed. Plastic gage is still used but its just a verification that everything was done right.
Engine build: Deciding what rod is needed to handle the power and use of the motor. Buy the correct parts. Verify as above.
Cost:
Refreshing a motor is a good thing if the motor shows little wear. If you do the labor it is not costly. You can find kits for $500-600. Expect another $500 for unexpected issues. You do need the skill to know when you can just reuse stuff and when you should take it to the machine shop and or replace it.
Rebuilding:
As a geneal rule 100% true rebuild will cost more then a new or remaned engine. As a general rule this is only worth it in a case where you have a numbers matching car or the motor is not available. If your motor was already "built" and was not bored .040 oversize this might be a good route for you.
Building: There is skill needed to redesign a motor. I have known guys who thought they had skill but ended up disappoint in their project. In this day in age it really tuff for a regular guy to build a Hi-performance motor for less then a crate motor. If you find a design you like. Like a common tried combination, Crank kit A with Cam B and Heads C and you can find 5 people that have already done it you have a shot but I think you will find your cost is going to be close to crate motor. Funny parts is this how a lot of crate motor companies get started. They find a great bullit proof combination and stream line the process to make them. They buy in bulk and know all the ins and outs of the parts.
Example of each: Connecting rod bearing
Refreash: Replace the bearing, use pastic gage to verify the clearance. If all is good your done.
Rebuild: Rods are removed cleaned resized and check for cracks. Crank is ground and the correct under size bearing are installed. Plastic gage is still used but its just a verification that everything was done right.
Engine build: Deciding what rod is needed to handle the power and use of the motor. Buy the correct parts. Verify as above.
Cost:
Refreshing a motor is a good thing if the motor shows little wear. If you do the labor it is not costly. You can find kits for $500-600. Expect another $500 for unexpected issues. You do need the skill to know when you can just reuse stuff and when you should take it to the machine shop and or replace it.
Rebuilding:
As a geneal rule 100% true rebuild will cost more then a new or remaned engine. As a general rule this is only worth it in a case where you have a numbers matching car or the motor is not available. If your motor was already "built" and was not bored .040 oversize this might be a good route for you.
Building: There is skill needed to redesign a motor. I have known guys who thought they had skill but ended up disappoint in their project. In this day in age it really tuff for a regular guy to build a Hi-performance motor for less then a crate motor. If you find a design you like. Like a common tried combination, Crank kit A with Cam B and Heads C and you can find 5 people that have already done it you have a shot but I think you will find your cost is going to be close to crate motor. Funny parts is this how a lot of crate motor companies get started. They find a great bullit proof combination and stream line the process to make them. They buy in bulk and know all the ins and outs of the parts.
Last edited by Gorn; 12-31-2010 at 07:35 AM.
#5
12-31-2010, 09:43 AM
This will give an idea of prices for crate engines http://paceperformance.com/c-142526-...n-engines.html
If you need to have the machine shop do all the work you would just be better off buying a crate engine. For the 425hp you would need to have your block really checked over sonic test the cylinder walls, clean/ magnaflux the block and replce the main bolts or stud them which may require line honing the mains. The block will probably need bored and torque plate honed and I would have the old passages deflashed. For the 425 hp you probably are going to want to upgrade the rods considering the cost of checking resizing and putting new bolts in the stock rods I would just purchase new aftermarket rods. Again to achieve the 425 hp I would consider going to a 3.75 inch stroke crank. The double hump heads can achieve the 425 hp but more than likly thy will need to be reworked to get to that level, again it may be more cost effective just to go to an aftermarket head. I think you have the right idea about trying to add up everything and compair I just want to give an idea what you may get into machining/parts wise...
If you need to have the machine shop do all the work you would just be better off buying a crate engine. For the 425hp you would need to have your block really checked over sonic test the cylinder walls, clean/ magnaflux the block and replce the main bolts or stud them which may require line honing the mains. The block will probably need bored and torque plate honed and I would have the old passages deflashed. For the 425 hp you probably are going to want to upgrade the rods considering the cost of checking resizing and putting new bolts in the stock rods I would just purchase new aftermarket rods. Again to achieve the 425 hp I would consider going to a 3.75 inch stroke crank. The double hump heads can achieve the 425 hp but more than likly thy will need to be reworked to get to that level, again it may be more cost effective just to go to an aftermarket head. I think you have the right idea about trying to add up everything and compair I just want to give an idea what you may get into machining/parts wise...
#6
12-31-2010, 11:44 AM
Good Morning:
Happy New Year to all.
I thank everyone for their input thus far.
Please keep the discussion going.
Jim T
Happy New Year to all.
I thank everyone for their input thus far.
Please keep the discussion going.
Jim T
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
