ok so im thinking of producing LT headers for the 3800 camaro/firebird. mine are going to adress all the shortcomings of the FFF version. im pricing them very reasonable, 450 for the headers and 550 for the complete set with Y pipe.(cats may cost more of course) leave me feedback!

 

dude ill prob buy a set cuz i need new ones

 

First, I would be curious to know what you think are FFF LT Header shortcomings?

Are you planning to do stainless steel ones, as that is the only type I would be interested in...

Is this just a thought, or are you already working on these and have a sample set? Are you making these yourself, or having some shop make them for you?

 

well by shortcomings i mean theres no EGR port and 700 dollars for just the headers?! no y pipe?! come on! now once i perfect my design...ill be making mine by the way, ill make a stainless version with y pipe for 675. but i really dont like fffs design cause of the lack of the egr port and no y pipe. and the price is too high also, most people with these kind of cars dont have 700 dollars for headers, not everyone lives in the backwoods and dont have to take thier cars through inspection.

 

AFAIK, EGR can be deleted with block-off plate and tuned-out from the computer -- never heard of EGR inspections... Word has it FFF may not make any more due to slow sales, their price is $600 last I heard. A Y-Pipe is a separate part from headers, and somewhat dependent on the rest of the exhaust -- i.e. true duals (no Y needed), etc. A Y option would be nice, but it should be separate, or offer a bundled deal...

Further, even if you made true LT Headers & catted Y, they would not pass inspection in CA, AFAIK no LT Headers are legal --Too many freedom robbers out there...

What about my 2nd question?

Also, if you do not have a set of LTs from FFF, how are you truly going to address shortcomings? EGR hookup aside (very minor and could be added relatively easily).

 

Lol I didn't know EGR was a good thing when going for performance considering that it shuts off when above 75% throttle...

What other short comings have you found considering you don't own any? I'm so very very curious. And what make you think you have any idea on how to manufacture headers? Do you know how to design them to flow well? Do you think stainless steel is cheap?

You sir are on crack. They're $700 because of the quality of materials used... And set of long tube STAINLESS STEEL headers are going to be high dollar. Pacesetters are cheap because they are **** quality and used mild steel that rusts through in a few years (ask me how I know hahaha).

And FYI, longtube headers will INSTANTLY fail you on an inspection. Not to mention your car cannot run at 14.7 AFR because of the scavenging effect. You'll burn up the valves for sure. So good luck with that lol.

Rethink what you're doing and how you're going to do it. And answer our questions plz. Thx

 

Here in PA areas with emission testing (most places) require a visual inspection that all original factory emission equipment be in place and hooked up. So unless you live in the sticks no EGR valve means no sticker. I use to live in the sticks and my inspection mechanic told me by 2012 all of PA will require emission stickers.

OP,
I am not sure how familiar you are with producing headers/Y-pipe but if you are good you can build a set on the car in about 16-24 hour. But to make all the jigs and fixture so you can make it outside of the car will take weeks. Without a CNC bender and a CNC robotic welder there is no way you can be competitive with a header manufacture. My guess would with the jigs and test fixtures you could get the manufacturing time down to about 12 hours without the CNC stuff. Each set of headers and Y pipe is going to cost you about $250 in material. In most shops we also calculate the cost per hour to run the shop. This would include the gas for the mig/tig and the electricity and the welding rods/wire. I assume your doing this in a home garage. Let’s guess it cost you 5 dollars an hour. So now you have $300 and 12 hours ties up in a set of headers. Sell price of $675 that means to you $375 for 12 hours work. That is 31.25 per hour not including all the markting and time shipping/packaging.

If you are that skilled at fabing Stainless pipe you can earn $80-100 per hour doing custom one offs.

Lastly, you will need to address tolerance stack up. Not only the tolerance stack up of your headers (Can a 45 deg bend be 46 degs and still make a good assembly?) but the stack up of the cars themselves. Just because a set of headers fits your car it does not mean it will fit another car. You would want to check your design on at least a half a dozen cars before you offer it to the public. You have to take into account sage due to worn motor mounts and just variation in manufacturing. One engine might be sitting 1/8” more to the right then another engine or one engine might have a 1 deg tilt and so on.

There are thousands of custom exhaust shops with CNC benders most do not have CNC welder. Why don’t they offer products? See above. They simple can not make any money at it. Some do offer some off the shelf items but most of those are small simple things the big manufactures have not bothered with due to volume and cost.

 

What is meant by 14.7 AFR? I assume Air Fuel Ratio, but how does that apply in this discussion?

 

dude...seriously...gm put the egr there for a reason, like gorn said, alot of states mandate that all emissions including egr must be intact.

second off, im not on here to prove that i can weld. and for you, fyi my boss makes headers also. i know how much stainless stell is while were on the subject.

and lastly where do you get off saying im on crack? i was kicking around a idea, i never said that i was going to do it, you need to lighten up on here, i mean you can post pics of your fff headers oh yea YOU DONT HAVE ANY! sooo....id suggest that you kick it dont a notch dude

 

WOW, PA SUCKS! :P Here in IL (which sucks for different reasons LOL), the OBD port is connected to, and that is IT, and ONLY on '96 and newer, older cars are EXEMPT! Emissions testing only applies around Chicagoland counties and a couple other areas, AFAIK.