89 camaro RS not turning over??
#11
03-22-2008, 09:43 AM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
Aww crap see thats what happens when ya get old.There is 15 not 7.Hope this helps and hope the cut and paste I did works.If not then gimme a hollar and I'll send it to ya.
Also heres a copy of info on the vats operation got it from third gen another forum I belong to.They were great help till I announced the addition of the 77 to my stable.Now I seem to get the cold shoulder.Ah prolly just an old man being paranoid.
I'm gonna try ta cut n paste that info now good luck.
#12
03-22-2008, 09:46 AM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
System Operation
When the system is operating in normal mode, the VATS decoder reads the correct resistance during cranking. The module grounds the Start Enable Relay coil. When the start enable relay contacts close, voltage is allowed to the "S" terminal of the starter. The VATS module also sends an enable signal to the ECM. This signal allows the ECM to operate the fuel injectors during cranking. The SECURITY light will also illuminate for approximately five seconds, then turn off and remain off. If an incorrect or no key resistance is read by the VATS decoder module, the module will shut down the start enable and ECM signal outputs for 4 minutes. The SECURITY light will flash during the cranking attempt, and will remain on during the 4-minute duration. Even if the correct resistance is read within that 4 minute duration, the VATS module will not operate the relay or signal the ECM..An error code.53 will also be set if the proper signal is not being received on CKT 229 by the ECM when the ignition is turned ON. If an incorrect resistance is detected by the VATS module after the engine is running, the VATS module will allow the vehicle to be restarted, even with an existing failure. The SECURITY lamp will remain on to warn the driver that a VATS system fault is present. However, this also means that the car can be started w/o a correct key resistance, and is therefore vulnerable to theft. An error code.53 will also be set by the ECM in this mode. NOTE - This error code does not store in VRAM memory, but is only present while the condition exists, and is useful as a diagnostic tool in troubleshooting VATS systems. To signal the ECM that a correct key resistance is sensed, the VATS and PASSKey systems use a grounding square wave at a 30Hz rate. The VATS module uses an NPN output transistor to pull down (ground) the 5 VDC reference voltage presented by the ECM on terminal B6. The reference signal must be alternately grounded and allowed to be pulled up by the ECM internal resistor 30 times per second (30 Hz) and at a 50% duty cycle. This method was selected to prevent the simple powering or grounding of an ECM input to enable the fuel injectors. The signal is only needed during cranking to enable the injectors. Once the engine is running, the VATS signal can be removed and the engine will continue to operate normally, although with the SECURITY warning lamp on.
Ok couldn't cut n paste more than once.(prolly didn't know what i was doin)So theres the second part.Hope it helps.....Bill
When the system is operating in normal mode, the VATS decoder reads the correct resistance during cranking. The module grounds the Start Enable Relay coil. When the start enable relay contacts close, voltage is allowed to the "S" terminal of the starter. The VATS module also sends an enable signal to the ECM. This signal allows the ECM to operate the fuel injectors during cranking. The SECURITY light will also illuminate for approximately five seconds, then turn off and remain off. If an incorrect or no key resistance is read by the VATS decoder module, the module will shut down the start enable and ECM signal outputs for 4 minutes. The SECURITY light will flash during the cranking attempt, and will remain on during the 4-minute duration. Even if the correct resistance is read within that 4 minute duration, the VATS module will not operate the relay or signal the ECM..An error code.53 will also be set if the proper signal is not being received on CKT 229 by the ECM when the ignition is turned ON. If an incorrect resistance is detected by the VATS module after the engine is running, the VATS module will allow the vehicle to be restarted, even with an existing failure. The SECURITY lamp will remain on to warn the driver that a VATS system fault is present. However, this also means that the car can be started w/o a correct key resistance, and is therefore vulnerable to theft. An error code.53 will also be set by the ECM in this mode. NOTE - This error code does not store in VRAM memory, but is only present while the condition exists, and is useful as a diagnostic tool in troubleshooting VATS systems. To signal the ECM that a correct key resistance is sensed, the VATS and PASSKey systems use a grounding square wave at a 30Hz rate. The VATS module uses an NPN output transistor to pull down (ground) the 5 VDC reference voltage presented by the ECM on terminal B6. The reference signal must be alternately grounded and allowed to be pulled up by the ECM internal resistor 30 times per second (30 Hz) and at a 50% duty cycle. This method was selected to prevent the simple powering or grounding of an ECM input to enable the fuel injectors. The signal is only needed during cranking to enable the injectors. Once the engine is running, the VATS signal can be removed and the engine will continue to operate normally, although with the SECURITY warning lamp on.
Ok couldn't cut n paste more than once.(prolly didn't know what i was doin)So theres the second part.Hope it helps.....Bill
#13
03-22-2008, 09:44 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
Thank.. that will work..... I actually have already replaced the key cyl with a non vats and have the wires that lead to the key down and out of the steering column.... and I thought the car would start but not run more than a few seconds if its just the resistor? No idea really never had any dealings with VATS before.... Maybe tomorrow will get outside and see if I can spin her over..... But yeah not adding any crazy voltage LOL... I knwo the Vats actually wants a voltage but its something that is about 50 - 60 pps in order to activate the VATS to enable the system.....
But any info will be much appreciated..
Thanks
W
But any info will be much appreciated..
Thanks
W
ORIGINAL: Donna_Bill_IN_TN
OK vats been there done that.Without the resistor pelet the car should do nothing.As in turn key and the brain says no.No turning over or anything.I'll check my flash drives this weekend and try to dig up my list of key pelets.(think theres actually 7 of em)This should speed up the process for ya a bit.What I did was raid a bone yard and cut the plug in for the 2 wires that run up to the contact reeds in the cylynder.Cut and stripped the wires on the key side and then soldered the correct combination of resistors to the wires.I then covered with heatshrink to protect them and plugged it into the same under my column.
Replaced the key cylynder with one of the MANY spares in the shed and she fired right up.
Oh yea BECAREFUL.In my eagerness to figure it out myself I fried the brain box for both the VATS and the car itself.Jumpering wires and sendin currant where it was not supposed to go.Gawd what a mess.
OK vats been there done that.Without the resistor pelet the car should do nothing.As in turn key and the brain says no.No turning over or anything.I'll check my flash drives this weekend and try to dig up my list of key pelets.(think theres actually 7 of em)This should speed up the process for ya a bit.What I did was raid a bone yard and cut the plug in for the 2 wires that run up to the contact reeds in the cylynder.Cut and stripped the wires on the key side and then soldered the correct combination of resistors to the wires.I then covered with heatshrink to protect them and plugged it into the same under my column.
Replaced the key cylynder with one of the MANY spares in the shed and she fired right up.
Oh yea BECAREFUL.In my eagerness to figure it out myself I fried the brain box for both the VATS and the car itself.Jumpering wires and sendin currant where it was not supposed to go.Gawd what a mess.
#14
03-22-2008, 09:49 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
ok cool so it makes perfect sense that the car would not turn over at all without the proper resistor in place to start the car..... I did cross the solenoid and turn the car over... (wanted to make sure the engine wasnt locked up as it had been sitting for a year or so......) Purchased the car with no key and didnt want to try and figure the resistor value out.... (still have to do so but I wont have to worry about it again. )
Thanks Again.
William
Thanks Again.
William
ORIGINAL: Donna_Bill_IN_TN
System Operation
When the system is operating in normal mode, the VATS decoder reads the correct resistance during cranking. The module grounds the Start Enable Relay coil. When the start enable relay contacts close, voltage is allowed to the "S" terminal of the starter. The VATS module also sends an enable signal to the ECM. This signal allows the ECM to operate the fuel injectors during cranking. The SECURITY light will also illuminate for approximately five seconds, then turn off and remain off. If an incorrect or no key resistance is read by the VATS decoder module, the module will shut down the start enable and ECM signal outputs for 4 minutes. The SECURITY light will flash during the cranking attempt, and will remain on during the 4-minute duration. Even if the correct resistance is read within that 4 minute duration, the VATS module will not operate the relay or signal the ECM..An error code.53 will also be set if the proper signal is not being received on CKT 229 by the ECM when the ignition is turned ON. If an incorrect resistance is detected by the VATS module after the engine is running, the VATS module will allow the vehicle to be restarted, even with an existing failure. The SECURITY lamp will remain on to warn the driver that a VATS system fault is present. However, this also means that the car can be started w/o a correct key resistance, and is therefore vulnerable to theft. An error code.53 will also be set by the ECM in this mode. NOTE - This error code does not store in VRAM memory, but is only present while the condition exists, and is useful as a diagnostic tool in troubleshooting VATS systems. To signal the ECM that a correct key resistance is sensed, the VATS and PASSKey systems use a grounding square wave at a 30Hz rate. The VATS module uses an NPN output transistor to pull down (ground) the 5 VDC reference voltage presented by the ECM on terminal B6. The reference signal must be alternately grounded and allowed to be pulled up by the ECM internal resistor 30 times per second (30 Hz) and at a 50% duty cycle. This method was selected to prevent the simple powering or grounding of an ECM input to enable the fuel injectors. The signal is only needed during cranking to enable the injectors. Once the engine is running, the VATS signal can be removed and the engine will continue to operate normally, although with the SECURITY warning lamp on.
Ok couldn't cut n paste more than once.(prolly didn't know what i was doin)So theres the second part.Hope it helps.....Bill
System Operation
When the system is operating in normal mode, the VATS decoder reads the correct resistance during cranking. The module grounds the Start Enable Relay coil. When the start enable relay contacts close, voltage is allowed to the "S" terminal of the starter. The VATS module also sends an enable signal to the ECM. This signal allows the ECM to operate the fuel injectors during cranking. The SECURITY light will also illuminate for approximately five seconds, then turn off and remain off. If an incorrect or no key resistance is read by the VATS decoder module, the module will shut down the start enable and ECM signal outputs for 4 minutes. The SECURITY light will flash during the cranking attempt, and will remain on during the 4-minute duration. Even if the correct resistance is read within that 4 minute duration, the VATS module will not operate the relay or signal the ECM..An error code.53 will also be set if the proper signal is not being received on CKT 229 by the ECM when the ignition is turned ON. If an incorrect resistance is detected by the VATS module after the engine is running, the VATS module will allow the vehicle to be restarted, even with an existing failure. The SECURITY lamp will remain on to warn the driver that a VATS system fault is present. However, this also means that the car can be started w/o a correct key resistance, and is therefore vulnerable to theft. An error code.53 will also be set by the ECM in this mode. NOTE - This error code does not store in VRAM memory, but is only present while the condition exists, and is useful as a diagnostic tool in troubleshooting VATS systems. To signal the ECM that a correct key resistance is sensed, the VATS and PASSKey systems use a grounding square wave at a 30Hz rate. The VATS module uses an NPN output transistor to pull down (ground) the 5 VDC reference voltage presented by the ECM on terminal B6. The reference signal must be alternately grounded and allowed to be pulled up by the ECM internal resistor 30 times per second (30 Hz) and at a 50% duty cycle. This method was selected to prevent the simple powering or grounding of an ECM input to enable the fuel injectors. The signal is only needed during cranking to enable the injectors. Once the engine is running, the VATS signal can be removed and the engine will continue to operate normally, although with the SECURITY warning lamp on.
Ok couldn't cut n paste more than once.(prolly didn't know what i was doin)So theres the second part.Hope it helps.....Bill
#15
03-22-2008, 11:43 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
I don't know if you have a radio shack near by you but you can get the resistors cheap there and they have a wide selection.If I remember I'll try ta find the type I bought when I did my bypass.Also if yer not too sure you can ask the sales rep there and some of them know at least a little bit about what they have.If ya need help just holla and I'll gladly do what I can.
Just remember you have a min and max resistance for each key pelet so you don't have to get it exact just within that window.With the long leads on the resistors you should be able to just twist them together for initial tests b4 ya solder.Take a ohms rading also b4 you try each combination to ensure you actually have good connections in the circuit.This way you can be sure you don't mistake a lack of responce from the vats system for wrong resistance when it could be reading lack of key.And remember it's a minimum of 4 min between each attempt for the vats to reset if wrong resistnace or lack there of is read.
Clear as mud huh??
Just remember you have a min and max resistance for each key pelet so you don't have to get it exact just within that window.With the long leads on the resistors you should be able to just twist them together for initial tests b4 ya solder.Take a ohms rading also b4 you try each combination to ensure you actually have good connections in the circuit.This way you can be sure you don't mistake a lack of responce from the vats system for wrong resistance when it could be reading lack of key.And remember it's a minimum of 4 min between each attempt for the vats to reset if wrong resistnace or lack there of is read.
Clear as mud huh??
#16
03-23-2008, 04:33 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
yeah I do have a radio shack very close.... I will go up there one afternoon this week and get some resistors.... I was considering just getting one of the resistor kits on ebay for like $15 I know resistors are cheap lol..... but with those I will have all 15 values at hand easily..... But thanks for the info.... I believe it to be the VATS the reason that it wont spin over... the guy I purchased the car from said it was running he shut it off and then it would not turn over again..... and the key cyl was in bad shape I can only imagine what shape the key was in....(it was missing as well when I got the car) But thanks for the information...
Thanks
William
Thanks
William
#17
04-14-2008, 06:19 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
Hey man... ? for you im nto real sure I understand this........ if the wrong resistance(none or anything other than the correct value) the starter will not spin????? Am I correct? The security lamp is on continuously when I try and start it... Maybe im being over zealous...... I put the first resistor in place and tried to start it and got nothing..... So that is ok if I read this right.......?!?!?! and I should shut it off wait 5 minutes(4 minutes) and try the next value?
Thanks again for any information...
William
Thanks again for any information...
William
ORIGINAL: Donna_Bill_IN_TN
System Operation
When the system is operating in normal mode, the VATS decoder reads the correct resistance during cranking. The module grounds the Start Enable Relay coil. When the start enable relay contacts close, voltage is allowed to the "S" terminal of the starter. The VATS module also sends an enable signal to the ECM. This signal allows the ECM to operate the fuel injectors during cranking. The SECURITY light will also illuminate for approximately five seconds, then turn off and remain off. If an incorrect or no key resistance is read by the VATS decoder module, the module will shut down the start enable and ECM signal outputs for 4 minutes. The SECURITY light will flash during the cranking attempt, and will remain on during the 4-minute duration. Even if the correct resistance is read within that 4 minute duration, the VATS module will not operate the relay or signal the ECM..An error code.53 will also be set if the proper signal is not being received on CKT 229 by the ECM when the ignition is turned ON. If an incorrect resistance is detected by the VATS module after the engine is running, the VATS module will allow the vehicle to be restarted, even with an existing failure. The SECURITY lamp will remain on to warn the driver that a VATS system fault is present. However, this also means that the car can be started w/o a correct key resistance, and is therefore vulnerable to theft. An error code.53 will also be set by the ECM in this mode. NOTE - This error code does not store in VRAM memory, but is only present while the condition exists, and is useful as a diagnostic tool in troubleshooting VATS systems. To signal the ECM that a correct key resistance is sensed, the VATS and PASSKey systems use a grounding square wave at a 30Hz rate. The VATS module uses an NPN output transistor to pull down (ground) the 5 VDC reference voltage presented by the ECM on terminal B6. The reference signal must be alternately grounded and allowed to be pulled up by the ECM internal resistor 30 times per second (30 Hz) and at a 50% duty cycle. This method was selected to prevent the simple powering or grounding of an ECM input to enable the fuel injectors. The signal is only needed during cranking to enable the injectors. Once the engine is running, the VATS signal can be removed and the engine will continue to operate normally, although with the SECURITY warning lamp on.
Ok couldn't cut n paste more than once.(prolly didn't know what i was doin)So theres the second part.Hope it helps.....Bill
System Operation
When the system is operating in normal mode, the VATS decoder reads the correct resistance during cranking. The module grounds the Start Enable Relay coil. When the start enable relay contacts close, voltage is allowed to the "S" terminal of the starter. The VATS module also sends an enable signal to the ECM. This signal allows the ECM to operate the fuel injectors during cranking. The SECURITY light will also illuminate for approximately five seconds, then turn off and remain off. If an incorrect or no key resistance is read by the VATS decoder module, the module will shut down the start enable and ECM signal outputs for 4 minutes. The SECURITY light will flash during the cranking attempt, and will remain on during the 4-minute duration. Even if the correct resistance is read within that 4 minute duration, the VATS module will not operate the relay or signal the ECM..An error code.53 will also be set if the proper signal is not being received on CKT 229 by the ECM when the ignition is turned ON. If an incorrect resistance is detected by the VATS module after the engine is running, the VATS module will allow the vehicle to be restarted, even with an existing failure. The SECURITY lamp will remain on to warn the driver that a VATS system fault is present. However, this also means that the car can be started w/o a correct key resistance, and is therefore vulnerable to theft. An error code.53 will also be set by the ECM in this mode. NOTE - This error code does not store in VRAM memory, but is only present while the condition exists, and is useful as a diagnostic tool in troubleshooting VATS systems. To signal the ECM that a correct key resistance is sensed, the VATS and PASSKey systems use a grounding square wave at a 30Hz rate. The VATS module uses an NPN output transistor to pull down (ground) the 5 VDC reference voltage presented by the ECM on terminal B6. The reference signal must be alternately grounded and allowed to be pulled up by the ECM internal resistor 30 times per second (30 Hz) and at a 50% duty cycle. This method was selected to prevent the simple powering or grounding of an ECM input to enable the fuel injectors. The signal is only needed during cranking to enable the injectors. Once the engine is running, the VATS signal can be removed and the engine will continue to operate normally, although with the SECURITY warning lamp on.
Ok couldn't cut n paste more than once.(prolly didn't know what i was doin)So theres the second part.Hope it helps.....Bill
#18
04-14-2008, 07:14 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
OK guys been toying with this thing for some time now and need some assistance......
battery is basically dead however I put a set of jumper cables on it and try and start it.....
NOTHING... the voltage meter shows about 13.5 volts but the starter will not turn over.......
Engine is not locked up and if I jump the solenoid the starter will turn but not very strong
and definately not enough to start the car....
I pulled the steering column down and checked the voltage leaving the switch (large Yellow wire) and I see good
voltage going to (I am assuming here) the starter solenoid but nothing......
Does anyone have a wiring diagram or can you point me to the likely culprit?
little background.... the VATS key was lost and the key was replaced with a non-vats..... I have all the resistors
to "bypass" the VATS system but they do me basically no good if the car will not turn over.....
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
William
battery is basically dead however I put a set of jumper cables on it and try and start it.....
NOTHING... the voltage meter shows about 13.5 volts but the starter will not turn over.......
Engine is not locked up and if I jump the solenoid the starter will turn but not very strong
and definately not enough to start the car....
I pulled the steering column down and checked the voltage leaving the switch (large Yellow wire) and I see good
voltage going to (I am assuming here) the starter solenoid but nothing......
Does anyone have a wiring diagram or can you point me to the likely culprit?
little background.... the VATS key was lost and the key was replaced with a non-vats..... I have all the resistors
to "bypass" the VATS system but they do me basically no good if the car will not turn over.....
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
William
#19
04-15-2008, 06:50 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
if the starter turns over but real slow, it could be just a corroded cable from the battery. i dont know much about the VATS system, but it sounds like nothing should happen at all when you hit the key, and uve said the starter turns when you hit the key, so it sounds like that may not be ur problem. if theres a lot of resistance in a cable, then there wouldnt be enough amperage to spin up the starter.
#20
04-16-2008, 08:27 PM
RE: 89 camaro RS steering wheel removal
it only turns over when I cross the solenoid at the starter... nothing happens when I turn the key......
Thanks
W
Thanks
W
ORIGINAL: 84VarinZ28
if the starter turns over but real slow, it could be just a corroded cable from the battery. i dont know much about the VATS system, but it sounds like nothing should happen at all when you hit the key, and uve said the starter turns when you hit the key, so it sounds like that may not be ur problem. if theres a lot of resistance in a cable, then there wouldnt be enough amperage to spin up the starter.
if the starter turns over but real slow, it could be just a corroded cable from the battery. i dont know much about the VATS system, but it sounds like nothing should happen at all when you hit the key, and uve said the starter turns when you hit the key, so it sounds like that may not be ur problem. if theres a lot of resistance in a cable, then there wouldnt be enough amperage to spin up the starter.