Hey there everybody,

Since I haven’t found a similar like answer in the posts before me, I’d like to trie it myself. First of all, I’d like to apologize for any strange looking sentences I’m writing, cause my grammar in English probably isn’t what is should be. For me, it’s hard enough to understand the mechanical madness and the names that comes along with the parts and then translating it in English. Anyway, I’m from the Netherlands and I have an ’78 Camaro 305 V8 with “some” starting problems.

It first started with some problems with the valves. You could hear a ticking sound from the engine. We tried to fix that and it stayed away for like a month or so. From that time on we knew that that wasn’t the only thing we had to fix. We wanted to replace the camshaft and the lifters. During that process we discovered that the inside of the engine didn’t see any daylight in quite some time and was extremely filthy. Because of that, we decided not to replace the camshaft, otherwise it was likely that more parts needed to be replaced, due to insufficient cleaning.

The only thing we replaced were the lifters, because after checking the old ones we saw that they were slightly damaged. After putting all the parts back together (after replacing the gaskets) we tried to start the Camaro again. Unfortunately, it didn’t wanted to start. We took the distributor cap off and we didn’t see any tears or rips in it. After taking the distributor out we only saw that it was dirty as well. We even did replace the sparkplugs and they gave a spark. Because of this, you would say that the distributor works. When starting the Camaro again, you can hear that the car is trying to start, it only doesn’t. Sometimes we even experienced flames from the carburetor and bangs from the exhaust (before these sounds were noticeable, we thought that the distributor wasn’t placed in the right way so we turned it 180 degrees). The battery was charged a few times because the power of it gone away by trying to start it so many times. I was even considering to replace the distributor, but it doesn’t seem obvious that that is the real problem, due to the fact that it does give a spark and even the flames from the carburetor. Right now the car is sitting and I’m not happy about it. I knew it needed some work, but like this?

I’m hoping that any of you can be so kind to help me out in this situation, cause I really have no idea what to do next. In addition to all said before I’m saving some money to have the engine revised or even overhauled by a new one when the costs or somewhat similar. Perhaps it is just a simple thing to do next, but unfortunately I’m not that technical with cars.

Thanks in advance!

 

Flames out of the carburetor and banging exhaust sounds like your valve lash probably isn't set correctly, and some or all of the valves aren't closing. What valve setting procedure did you follow? You can set them the way the repair manuals say, which is fine as long as you follow up and reset them the engine running way. For a set and forget procedure, I prefer the much more accurate "on the heel of the cam lobe way", such as this: Valve Adjustment
Also, make absolutely sure you have your rotor pointing at the #1 plug wire when the piston is at TDC on the compression stroke.

 

Did you take the cam out or remove the timing chain and gears?
If so are you sure you got the timing marks lined up correctly and with the engine rotated in the right position?
When you had the distributor out and then replaced it are you sure the engine was on #1 cylinder at TDC compression stroke?
Are you sure the plug wires are all on the right plugs and towers on the distributor,this is a very common mistake I've made many times myself.
One or two mixed up with make all sorts of misfires out the carb and exhaust.
I would have replaced that cam,new lifters on and old worn cam may fail before long as the cam deteriorates rapidly but that is another issue.
Camaro69 could be right about overtightened valves not closing but it would have to be a lot of them for the engine to not start.

 

Thanks for the quick response!

In addition to what I've stated before is that the valve setting procedure we followed, was by adjusting the lifters with the engine running. This was only the first time to get rid of the ticking sound in the engine (temporarily). When this was done, there weren't any other big problems with the engine. At that point the car still wanted to started.

Later on, after pulling the engine apart and placing it back together again, we found out that the engine wouldn't start so we tried to make sure that the valves were on time by (one side at a time) tightening the valves after 1/4 turn of the ... (i don't really know how this part is called, but the fan needed to be removed before this bolt can be turned)

I still do not have a repair manual for the camaro and have to get one soon to know what all the names of parts are.

Did you take the cam out or remove the timing chain and gears?
The timing chain wasn't removed because we saw that even this part was slightly damaged and we didn't want the cam to come out even a small bit. If the cam would come out than it could be so that we would damage the bearing shells and then they would be needed to replace as well.
The guy who took care of the most part of trying to fix it, said so.

If so are you sure you got the timing marks lined up correctly and with the engine rotated in the right position?
I even wonder how I can see that the timing marks are lined up correctly.

When you had the distributor out and then replaced it are you sure the engine was on #1 cylinder at TDC compression stroke?
I'm not sure, I need to ask this to the guy I mentioned before.

I know it's hard enough for me to understand all of this, but unfortunately I can't answer all the questions. I really need to ask this to the guy who tried to help me out in the first place.

I also wanted to know if it is really necessary to replace the distributor (I heard this from that guy) or do I just need to look at the plugwires (for what I know we didn't change the order) and maybe loosen the valve lash?

Thanks again!

 

I've swapped cams in Chevy V8's many times without replacing cam bearings so I don't know what he's thinking there,they can be damaged installing the new cam if you aren't careful but with a cam installation tool (basically a handle the cam bolts on to) and care it can be done with no problems.
You say the cam chain was slightly damaged?
That's a big red flag for me,there's really no such thing as slightly damaged,if it had bad teeth on the sprockets and or the chain is stretched out of shape it can jump a couple teeth and throw your whole valve train out of time,this would certainly explain your problem with miss fires.
its' a common problem with high mile worn engines and often the cause of failure when an engine finally quits.
It's wise to replace the timing set at 100K miles on a Chevy just to be safe.
If that is the case you are lucky it didn't start because you would likely be bending valves and pushrods and possibly even put a hole in a piston.

Here's a some info on firing order,the #1 piston must be on it's compression or firing stroke when the distributor is installed and the distributor rotor inside the cap must be pointed at the #1 plugwire.
Replace the distributor? not sure why he would want to replace it unless he found damage,usually a new rotor cap and wires will do for a tune up.
Maybe also a new set of plug wires if they are old.

Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxyjA...eature=related



and this video about the cam and timing chain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr_n0cL46NM

Here you can see the dot marks on the sprockets that must line up.

 

I still go back to my previous question of what procedure did you follow to initially set the valves after taking it apart and putting it back together?

 

First of all I need to say that the engine wasn't taken out entirely. We started to take off the airfilter, carburetor, manifold, valve covers and from then on we discovered all of the filth inside of the engine. We also removed the water pump and some other parts from the front. We discovered that the timing chain haves somewhat bad teeth on the sprockets.

Is it not possible that, by removing the timing chain that the cam could come out? If so, that can be a problem if the bearing shells are damaged as well and because of that I need to replace them as well? The main reason that guy said so, was because of the transfer of grease and other filth we might push in to the chamber were the cam normally is situated. And by doing that he said that the bearing shells are going to be damaged most likely.
If it isn't to much to ask, do you by any chance have an example of a cam installation tool, such as in a picture perhaps? I looked at the video on youtube and saw that it is also possible to mount the lower sprocket of the timing chain on the cam and then slowly push the cam in. Maybe this is also a possibility to not damage the bearings?

What I'm going to do first is to check if the engine firing order is set correctly and try to make sure that the #1 piston is at TDC and point the rotor at the #1 plugwire.

To answer Camaro 69: we initially adjusted the valves by zero lash by tightening the nuts of each valve towards the point that resistance was felt. I'm only not sure that we followed the correct order of the firing order of the engine. So that probably needs looked at too.

There might have been more questions added to the first reply, however I'm
continuously learning more and more about how the engine works, thanks for that.
If I figured out if the above mentioned actions work I'll keep you posted.

 

Bad cam bearings are not going to prevent the engine from starting, but the will cause many other problems. From what I am reading, you did not use the proper procedure for adjusting valve lash. When you adjust the rockers, the lifter associated with it must be on the heel of the cam (valve closed and spring fully extended). If you tighten the adjusting nuts with the lifter on the lobe (valve partially open, spring compressed) the valve will never fully close and you will never have enough compression for the engine to run, and the pudh rods may slide off the rockers. The recommended way to adjust lash is to bring each cylinder to TDC on the compression stroke (both valves closed and springs extended), then follow the adjusting procedure. Keep in mind that new lifters usually need to be filled with oil by soking them in oil for a good lenght of time, otherwise they will be in a collapsed state when you go to adjust lash.

 

Cam tool is just a handle to give leverage with the cam going in the last couple of bearings.


Same principle as using the cam gear/sprocket but with more control and leverage.

If you have bad teeth on that gear you need to replace the timing set,if it hasn't already jumped the chain it will and you'll be bending valves.
I'd get a new timing set even if you don't replace the old cam,if that chain jumps it can destroy the whole engine.
Then go back to square one and check that the chain is lined up right and the distributor is in the right position and finally do a preliminary valve lash adjustment before trying to start it again.
Once you get her started you'll need to do a final valve adjustment with the engine running but we can cover that when you get to that point.