632ci engine installation in 78 camaro
#481
02-11-2015, 11:30 AM
There's no way I can give you angles and dimensions for your brackets, as I have no way of knowing the ride height, or pinion angles your setup will have. I can however give you the info on how I would do it, when I set mine up.
You will need to put all four tires and wheels on the car to set up ride height. The rear will need to be sitting on blocks, and the car up on stands to simulate the ride height you want. Then all the links assembled loosely to simulate how they will situate in the car. Figure out the driveline angle from the transmission to the rear axle, and then set the pinion angle on the rear axle to match the transmission angle. Once you have both angles set, you can then set the brackets on the axle and adjust links to where they align when it is all set up. Tack weld the brackets to the axle, and then unbolt the links and drop the axle out. Weld everything up outside the car, being extremely careful not to run long beads on the brackets, as it's easy to warp the axle tubes, and pull a new axle out of alignment. If you have any question about your ability to weld in the brackets on the axle or frame, get it tacked, and let a certified welder do the final welding.
After everything is welded up, and you can test fit it again; you can do final fine tuning with the rod ends to get it all perfected. A 4 link is a nice setup, but they aren't something that can be just welded up and tossed in place. You'll most likely have the rear in and out 3-4 times by the time it's done, and painted.
You will need to put all four tires and wheels on the car to set up ride height. The rear will need to be sitting on blocks, and the car up on stands to simulate the ride height you want. Then all the links assembled loosely to simulate how they will situate in the car. Figure out the driveline angle from the transmission to the rear axle, and then set the pinion angle on the rear axle to match the transmission angle. Once you have both angles set, you can then set the brackets on the axle and adjust links to where they align when it is all set up. Tack weld the brackets to the axle, and then unbolt the links and drop the axle out. Weld everything up outside the car, being extremely careful not to run long beads on the brackets, as it's easy to warp the axle tubes, and pull a new axle out of alignment. If you have any question about your ability to weld in the brackets on the axle or frame, get it tacked, and let a certified welder do the final welding.
After everything is welded up, and you can test fit it again; you can do final fine tuning with the rod ends to get it all perfected. A 4 link is a nice setup, but they aren't something that can be just welded up and tossed in place. You'll most likely have the rear in and out 3-4 times by the time it's done, and painted.
So if I got this right, the engine, transmission, all the front panels, nose and hood needs to be installed in the car to have the full weight on the front end - the correct ride height.
Then I need to simulate the rear ride height (Ride height is determined by measuring 14 ½” center-to-center on the Shockwave shock absorber or one trick to help maintain these settings is to tack weld a 4 ¾” spacer between the bump stop pad and the axle).
One good tip from Ridetech is that the lower bars can be welded perpendicular 90 degrees to the pinion centreline.
One thing that I do not like is that the lower bars are non adjustable. Therefore I can't move the axle forward and aft if needed to adjust the wheel to be located in the center of the wheel arch. When I was mock up the rear end with this triangulated kit, the wheel did not come at the center of the wheel arch. Maybe I had the pinnion angle and ride height all messed up!!!!!!
No I am not a welder expert. Yes I can weld but not this rear end. I will tack weld the brackets and get a professional welder doing all the welding for me.
Last edited by clacia; 02-11-2015 at 11:56 AM.
#482
02-12-2015, 09:53 AM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
I'm not familiar with the ridetech system, but not having adjustment on all 4 bars is going to create some extra work in setting things up, and it wont be as easy as all being adjustable. I would probably modify their lower bars to add adjustment on one end myself, as I would want that ability to make it easier when doing final tuning and setup.
I don't see how having the lower bars perpendicular to pinion angle does a lot to make it work better, and unless there's a good amount of vertical adjustment or settings on the mounting system, I'm not sure how you'll get there? Are the lower rods just solid ends, with bushings and not threaded ends or heim ends? You can buy weld bungs and heim ends to adapt one end, and make it adjustable, if you decide it will help set this system up.
You don't need everything on the car to simulate ride height, if your system is adjustable. I would definitely want the engine in place, and front subframe fully assembled, with tires and wheels. You can estimate the weight of front fenders, and put weight on the front with sandbags, or other things, but I'd want my front fenders on loosely, just to see if my car sat the way I like it, before setting the rear ride height, and system.
I also wouldn't set the rear by using a 14.5" center to center measurement, if my static height of my coilover was 14.5", as they rarely sit at static height once loaded. If you put enough preload on a coilover to get it to sit at static height when the weight was on it, you'd need either a very heavy spring, or so much preload that the car's ride would be horrible. I'd check to see what they consider normal compression for the 14.5" coilover, and that's where I'd set my height. Often I see shops using a "dummy" shock to mount between axle and frame during construction, and simulate ride height. This works good, and can be built from scrap parts.
You're in for a real learning curve setting up a 4 link rear, and expect a lot of repetitive steps during this setup. Don't worry too much about welding in the setup, until you've got everything bolted together, and you're sure it's right. Then tack things good enough to lower it down on the chassis, and actually check ride height, and alignment. You may end up cutting some tacks if it needs to relocate, but if you've taken a lot of time to check and double check measurements, it may be perfect the first time. Would be nice if one of your car buddies has set one up before, and might drop by to give you pointers for setting yours up the first time.
I don't see how having the lower bars perpendicular to pinion angle does a lot to make it work better, and unless there's a good amount of vertical adjustment or settings on the mounting system, I'm not sure how you'll get there? Are the lower rods just solid ends, with bushings and not threaded ends or heim ends? You can buy weld bungs and heim ends to adapt one end, and make it adjustable, if you decide it will help set this system up.
You don't need everything on the car to simulate ride height, if your system is adjustable. I would definitely want the engine in place, and front subframe fully assembled, with tires and wheels. You can estimate the weight of front fenders, and put weight on the front with sandbags, or other things, but I'd want my front fenders on loosely, just to see if my car sat the way I like it, before setting the rear ride height, and system.
I also wouldn't set the rear by using a 14.5" center to center measurement, if my static height of my coilover was 14.5", as they rarely sit at static height once loaded. If you put enough preload on a coilover to get it to sit at static height when the weight was on it, you'd need either a very heavy spring, or so much preload that the car's ride would be horrible. I'd check to see what they consider normal compression for the 14.5" coilover, and that's where I'd set my height. Often I see shops using a "dummy" shock to mount between axle and frame during construction, and simulate ride height. This works good, and can be built from scrap parts.
You're in for a real learning curve setting up a 4 link rear, and expect a lot of repetitive steps during this setup. Don't worry too much about welding in the setup, until you've got everything bolted together, and you're sure it's right. Then tack things good enough to lower it down on the chassis, and actually check ride height, and alignment. You may end up cutting some tacks if it needs to relocate, but if you've taken a lot of time to check and double check measurements, it may be perfect the first time. Would be nice if one of your car buddies has set one up before, and might drop by to give you pointers for setting yours up the first time.
#483
02-12-2015, 10:05 AM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
I just went to ridetech's site to look at their "bolt in" system. Is this the system you purchased?
Bolt-On 4-Links :: 1970-1981 Chevy Camaro, Firebird - Bolt-On 4-Link - RideTech.com - Suspension Specialist - Online Store
If so, then I would expect the system to be factory set to the correct wheelbase, and that is why they don't have adjustment in the lower links. If this is what you have, then I'm not sure why yours wouldn't be centered in the opening exactly as it comes from the factory? The upper arm brackets need to be installed after the lower links are bolted up, and ride height is simulated. Then you can determine pinion angle, and tack weld the brackets on with pinion angle, and ride height both set. Minor adjustments to the upper arms would be very minimum after that, and if you started with the upper adjustment in a neutral position, you should have enough thread on the upper links to go either direction for final settings.
I hope this kit came with a good set of instructions, that should lead you through step by step, to get it set up correctly the first time. If not, I'd contact the maker and ask for detailed instructions.
Bolt-On 4-Links :: 1970-1981 Chevy Camaro, Firebird - Bolt-On 4-Link - RideTech.com - Suspension Specialist - Online Store
If so, then I would expect the system to be factory set to the correct wheelbase, and that is why they don't have adjustment in the lower links. If this is what you have, then I'm not sure why yours wouldn't be centered in the opening exactly as it comes from the factory? The upper arm brackets need to be installed after the lower links are bolted up, and ride height is simulated. Then you can determine pinion angle, and tack weld the brackets on with pinion angle, and ride height both set. Minor adjustments to the upper arms would be very minimum after that, and if you started with the upper adjustment in a neutral position, you should have enough thread on the upper links to go either direction for final settings.
I hope this kit came with a good set of instructions, that should lead you through step by step, to get it set up correctly the first time. If not, I'd contact the maker and ask for detailed instructions.
#484
02-14-2015, 02:10 PM
I'm not familiar with the ridetech system, but not having adjustment on all 4 bars is going to create some extra work in setting things up, and it wont be as easy as all being adjustable. I would probably modify their lower bars to add adjustment on one end myself, as I would want that ability to make it easier when doing final tuning and setup.
I don't see how having the lower bars perpendicular to pinion angle does a lot to make it work better, and unless there's a good amount of vertical adjustment or settings on the mounting system, I'm not sure how you'll get there? Are the lower rods just solid ends, with bushings and not threaded ends or heim ends? You can buy weld bungs and heim ends to adapt one end, and make it adjustable, if you decide it will help set this system up.
You don't need everything on the car to simulate ride height, if your system is adjustable. I would definitely want the engine in place, and front subframe fully assembled, with tires and wheels. You can estimate the weight of front fenders, and put weight on the front with sandbags, or other things, but I'd want my front fenders on loosely, just to see if my car sat the way I like it, before setting the rear ride height, and system.
I also wouldn't set the rear by using a 14.5" center to center measurement, if my static height of my coilover was 14.5", as they rarely sit at static height once loaded. If you put enough preload on a coilover to get it to sit at static height when the weight was on it, you'd need either a very heavy spring, or so much preload that the car's ride would be horrible. I'd check to see what they consider normal compression for the 14.5" coilover, and that's where I'd set my height. Often I see shops using a "dummy" shock to mount between axle and frame during construction, and simulate ride height. This works good, and can be built from scrap parts.
You're in for a real learning curve setting up a 4 link rear, and expect a lot of repetitive steps during this setup. Don't worry too much about welding in the setup, until you've got everything bolted together, and you're sure it's right. Then tack things good enough to lower it down on the chassis, and actually check ride height, and alignment. You may end up cutting some tacks if it needs to relocate, but if you've taken a lot of time to check and double check measurements, it may be perfect the first time. Would be nice if one of your car buddies has set one up before, and might drop by to give you pointers for setting yours up the first time.
I don't see how having the lower bars perpendicular to pinion angle does a lot to make it work better, and unless there's a good amount of vertical adjustment or settings on the mounting system, I'm not sure how you'll get there? Are the lower rods just solid ends, with bushings and not threaded ends or heim ends? You can buy weld bungs and heim ends to adapt one end, and make it adjustable, if you decide it will help set this system up.
You don't need everything on the car to simulate ride height, if your system is adjustable. I would definitely want the engine in place, and front subframe fully assembled, with tires and wheels. You can estimate the weight of front fenders, and put weight on the front with sandbags, or other things, but I'd want my front fenders on loosely, just to see if my car sat the way I like it, before setting the rear ride height, and system.
I also wouldn't set the rear by using a 14.5" center to center measurement, if my static height of my coilover was 14.5", as they rarely sit at static height once loaded. If you put enough preload on a coilover to get it to sit at static height when the weight was on it, you'd need either a very heavy spring, or so much preload that the car's ride would be horrible. I'd check to see what they consider normal compression for the 14.5" coilover, and that's where I'd set my height. Often I see shops using a "dummy" shock to mount between axle and frame during construction, and simulate ride height. This works good, and can be built from scrap parts.
You're in for a real learning curve setting up a 4 link rear, and expect a lot of repetitive steps during this setup. Don't worry too much about welding in the setup, until you've got everything bolted together, and you're sure it's right. Then tack things good enough to lower it down on the chassis, and actually check ride height, and alignment. You may end up cutting some tacks if it needs to relocate, but if you've taken a lot of time to check and double check measurements, it may be perfect the first time. Would be nice if one of your car buddies has set one up before, and might drop by to give you pointers for setting yours up the first time.
I need to measure the static height of the coil over. I am not into coil overs but my understanding is that the 14.5" is when it it weight on wheels with the shock absorber loaded? Does Loaded means when the shock is compressed during a bump or when compressed during the normal weight of the car when parked? And what is preload?
So if I had to have the lower bar links welded perpendicular to the pinnion center line, would it be fine? Or shall I weld them my self? My biggest worry is to center the axle left and righ and fwd and aft.
Dummy shock is where there are 2 sliders (one to attach instead of the top of the coilover and the lower to attach instead to the lower end of the coil over) with wholes and a bolt and nut to adjust the 14.5"
#485
02-14-2015, 02:34 PM
I just went to ridetech's site to look at their "bolt in" system. Is this the system you purchased?
Bolt-On 4-Links :: 1970-1981 Chevy Camaro, Firebird - Bolt-On 4-Link - RideTech.com - Suspension Specialist - Online Store
If so, then I would expect the system to be factory set to the correct wheelbase, and that is why they don't have adjustment in the lower links. If this is what you have, then I'm not sure why yours wouldn't be centered in the opening exactly as it comes from the factory? The upper arm brackets need to be installed after the lower links are bolted up, and ride height is simulated. Then you can determine pinion angle, and tack weld the brackets on with pinion angle, and ride height both set. Minor adjustments to the upper arms would be very minimum after that, and if you started with the upper adjustment in a neutral position, you should have enough thread on the upper links to go either direction for final settings.
I hope this kit came with a good set of instructions, that should lead you through step by step, to get it set up correctly the first time. If not, I'd contact the maker and ask for detailed instructions.
Bolt-On 4-Links :: 1970-1981 Chevy Camaro, Firebird - Bolt-On 4-Link - RideTech.com - Suspension Specialist - Online Store
If so, then I would expect the system to be factory set to the correct wheelbase, and that is why they don't have adjustment in the lower links. If this is what you have, then I'm not sure why yours wouldn't be centered in the opening exactly as it comes from the factory? The upper arm brackets need to be installed after the lower links are bolted up, and ride height is simulated. Then you can determine pinion angle, and tack weld the brackets on with pinion angle, and ride height both set. Minor adjustments to the upper arms would be very minimum after that, and if you started with the upper adjustment in a neutral position, you should have enough thread on the upper links to go either direction for final settings.
I hope this kit came with a good set of instructions, that should lead you through step by step, to get it set up correctly the first time. If not, I'd contact the maker and ask for detailed instructions.
Therefore shall I ask Moser to pre weld these lower brackets for me when I order the rear end or I weld them my self when I center the rear end and position the rear end for the correct pinion angle?
Are the factory perches welded 90 degrees to the factory pinion center?
Yes the kit came with instructions but when I had this problems with the wheel not in center, I got confused. There is a utube where it shows step by step how it is made but not using the same lower bars as I am using.
Have a look
#486
02-14-2015, 06:46 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
The only adjustments available in this triangulated 4 link are the two top rod ends with heim ends. The lower bars are poly bushings and both sides welded. I asked ridetech to make them adjustable for me but apparently they do not do them, although they do sell the rod ends with threads. I see it quite strange not to make it adjustable once they sell threaded poly bushings. So yes I will modify my lower bars (I do not know how exactly) to make them adjustable same as the top ones.
I need to measure the static height of the coil over. I am not into coil overs but my understanding is that the 14.5" is when it it weight on wheels with the shock absorber loaded? Does Loaded means when the shock is compressed during a bump or when compressed during the normal weight of the car when parked? And what is preload?
So if I had to have the lower bar links welded perpendicular to the pinnion center line, would it be fine? Or shall I weld them my self? My biggest worry is to center the axle left and righ and fwd and aft.
Dummy shock is where there are 2 sliders (one to attach instead of the top of the coilover and the lower to attach instead to the lower end of the coil over) with wholes and a bolt and nut to adjust the 14.5"
I need to measure the static height of the coil over. I am not into coil overs but my understanding is that the 14.5" is when it it weight on wheels with the shock absorber loaded? Does Loaded means when the shock is compressed during a bump or when compressed during the normal weight of the car when parked? And what is preload?
So if I had to have the lower bar links welded perpendicular to the pinnion center line, would it be fine? Or shall I weld them my self? My biggest worry is to center the axle left and righ and fwd and aft.
Dummy shock is where there are 2 sliders (one to attach instead of the top of the coilover and the lower to attach instead to the lower end of the coil over) with wholes and a bolt and nut to adjust the 14.5"
The factory rod end with bushing can be replaced with a bushed adjustable, or a heim. Once you have a replacement end, and a threaded weld bung, you can determine how much tube needs to be trimmed off to get the length. Then cut the end off, weld in the threaded bung, and screw in a heim or bushing. I buy mine from QS Components, but not sure if Frank ships overseas or not? His prices are fantastic, and cheaper than anyone else in the USA.
Rockkrawler 4 link kit, bearing, heim joints, heims, joint, jam nut, supply, rod ends
These are the various threaded weld bungs. Need to determine outside diameter, and tube thickness, to determine which weld bung to purchase.
Rockkrawler 4 link kit, bearing, heim joints, heims, joint, jam nut, supply, rod ends
I would use either the same bushing style end (which QS doesn't sell) or the solid rod end, like this:
QS Components Inc. Quality Racing Rod End & Components
I would not use a heim for your 4 link, as I don't think they'll hold up as well, and may begin to rattle as they work and wear.
Preload-This is the amount of pressure your spring has adjusted into it. My QA1's have double locking rings to allow setting the tension on the coilover spring, and the 2nd lock ring locks the first, to maintain the setting. I can just run the lock rings up against the spring lightly, or I can compress the spring, which adds preload. Whatever amount you compress the spring, without weight on the car is your preload. I have my preload set at about 1.5"-2". More preload stiffens the suspension, and raises ride heaight. Less softens the suspension, and lowers ride height.
If your Ridetech system doesn't allow the tire/wheel to sit correctly in the wheelwell opening as advertised, then I'd mention that to Ridetech. They charge a lot for their system, and it should be correct. I agree that the rods should be adjustable, especially for the price they charge! Both ends could be adjustable, but even just one would probably make it work much better than none.
I'm not sure how Moser would weld the brackets on, unless you had Ridetech ship them to Moser, or you ship them to Moser? If they were welded on at the correct angle, then you'll probably find the solid links wont be an issue. If they aren't welded on correctly, then you'll probably find the adjustable upper links wont be correct either. If Ridetech says 90 degrees, then I suppose you have to figure out if you trust them enough to go ahead and do 90 degrees, or wait until you get the axle, and weld them where they work for upper and lower links. I know I'd want to tack weld them myself, and if I didn't trust my welding, I'd have them done locally. Just be sure whoever welds all these brackets on is not only a good welder, but also understands how crucial it is to not get the tubes or welds too hot, and bend that new Moser axle. The more brackets you weld on an axle, the more chance of pulling it out of alignment. Care needs to be observed to ensure you don't ruin a new and very straight axle housing! I always check mine for straightness once they're done, and if they do pull out of alignment, an axle shop can true them.
#487
02-15-2015, 12:19 PM
Coilover shock length has always been measured eye to eye on centers, and off of the car, not on with the weight on it. No way for a shock supplier to know the exact weight of a car, so they can't give that measurement accurately.
The factory rod end with bushing can be replaced with a bushed adjustable, or a heim. Once you have a replacement end, and a threaded weld bung, you can determine how much tube needs to be trimmed off to get the length. Then cut the end off, weld in the threaded bung, and screw in a heim or bushing. I buy mine from QS Components, but not sure if Frank ships overseas or not? His prices are fantastic, and cheaper than anyone else in the USA.
Rockkrawler 4 link kit, bearing, heim joints, heims, joint, jam nut, supply, rod ends
These are the various threaded weld bungs. Need to determine outside diameter, and tube thickness, to determine which weld bung to purchase.
Rockkrawler 4 link kit, bearing, heim joints, heims, joint, jam nut, supply, rod ends
I would use either the same bushing style end (which QS doesn't sell) or the solid rod end, like this:
QS Components Inc. Quality Racing Rod End & Components
I would not use a heim for your 4 link, as I don't think they'll hold up as well, and may begin to rattle as they work and wear.
Preload-This is the amount of pressure your spring has adjusted into it. My QA1's have double locking rings to allow setting the tension on the coilover spring, and the 2nd lock ring locks the first, to maintain the setting. I can just run the lock rings up against the spring lightly, or I can compress the spring, which adds preload. Whatever amount you compress the spring, without weight on the car is your preload. I have my preload set at about 1.5"-2". More preload stiffens the suspension, and raises ride heaight. Less softens the suspension, and lowers ride height.
If your Ridetech system doesn't allow the tire/wheel to sit correctly in the wheelwell opening as advertised, then I'd mention that to Ridetech. They charge a lot for their system, and it should be correct. I agree that the rods should be adjustable, especially for the price they charge! Both ends could be adjustable, but even just one would probably make it work much better than none.
I'm not sure how Moser would weld the brackets on, unless you had Ridetech ship them to Moser, or you ship them to Moser? If they were welded on at the correct angle, then you'll probably find the solid links wont be an issue. If they aren't welded on correctly, then you'll probably find the adjustable upper links wont be correct either. If Ridetech says 90 degrees, then I suppose you have to figure out if you trust them enough to go ahead and do 90 degrees, or wait until you get the axle, and weld them where they work for upper and lower links. I know I'd want to tack weld them myself, and if I didn't trust my welding, I'd have them done locally. Just be sure whoever welds all these brackets on is not only a good welder, but also understands how crucial it is to not get the tubes or welds too hot, and bend that new Moser axle. The more brackets you weld on an axle, the more chance of pulling it out of alignment. Care needs to be observed to ensure you don't ruin a new and very straight axle housing! I always check mine for straightness once they're done, and if they do pull out of alignment, an axle shop can true them.
The factory rod end with bushing can be replaced with a bushed adjustable, or a heim. Once you have a replacement end, and a threaded weld bung, you can determine how much tube needs to be trimmed off to get the length. Then cut the end off, weld in the threaded bung, and screw in a heim or bushing. I buy mine from QS Components, but not sure if Frank ships overseas or not? His prices are fantastic, and cheaper than anyone else in the USA.
Rockkrawler 4 link kit, bearing, heim joints, heims, joint, jam nut, supply, rod ends
These are the various threaded weld bungs. Need to determine outside diameter, and tube thickness, to determine which weld bung to purchase.
Rockkrawler 4 link kit, bearing, heim joints, heims, joint, jam nut, supply, rod ends
I would use either the same bushing style end (which QS doesn't sell) or the solid rod end, like this:
QS Components Inc. Quality Racing Rod End & Components
I would not use a heim for your 4 link, as I don't think they'll hold up as well, and may begin to rattle as they work and wear.
Preload-This is the amount of pressure your spring has adjusted into it. My QA1's have double locking rings to allow setting the tension on the coilover spring, and the 2nd lock ring locks the first, to maintain the setting. I can just run the lock rings up against the spring lightly, or I can compress the spring, which adds preload. Whatever amount you compress the spring, without weight on the car is your preload. I have my preload set at about 1.5"-2". More preload stiffens the suspension, and raises ride heaight. Less softens the suspension, and lowers ride height.
If your Ridetech system doesn't allow the tire/wheel to sit correctly in the wheelwell opening as advertised, then I'd mention that to Ridetech. They charge a lot for their system, and it should be correct. I agree that the rods should be adjustable, especially for the price they charge! Both ends could be adjustable, but even just one would probably make it work much better than none.
I'm not sure how Moser would weld the brackets on, unless you had Ridetech ship them to Moser, or you ship them to Moser? If they were welded on at the correct angle, then you'll probably find the solid links wont be an issue. If they aren't welded on correctly, then you'll probably find the adjustable upper links wont be correct either. If Ridetech says 90 degrees, then I suppose you have to figure out if you trust them enough to go ahead and do 90 degrees, or wait until you get the axle, and weld them where they work for upper and lower links. I know I'd want to tack weld them myself, and if I didn't trust my welding, I'd have them done locally. Just be sure whoever welds all these brackets on is not only a good welder, but also understands how crucial it is to not get the tubes or welds too hot, and bend that new Moser axle. The more brackets you weld on an axle, the more chance of pulling it out of alignment. Care needs to be observed to ensure you don't ruin a new and very straight axle housing! I always check mine for straightness once they're done, and if they do pull out of alignment, an axle shop can true them.
What a nice website and good quality too. Thanks for that, always good to know.
I will purchase a set of lower weld on brackets from Ridetech again and this time get them shipped to Moser for welding.
Thrust - If Ridetech say 90 degrees, then I have to thrust and stay on their word. Worst comes to worst and if the brackets would need to be adjusted, then I can correct this with the lower bars length adjustment. I thrust that Moser are capable of welding the lower brackets to the correct location and angle I tell them to my new axle housing, and they will be careful not to warp the axle housing. That will be a good start for me and then I will figure out the correct location and position of the top brackets which I will tack weld my self.
So ride height is referred to when the car is weight on wheels with the shock absorber installed and the preload set correctly? This 14.5" on a dummy shock Ridetech is referring to is to simulate the correct height of the rear of the camaro when weight on wheels with the correct pinion angle?
Are the stock spring perches on a second gen camaro stock axle welded 90 degrees to the pinion?
Thanks a lot. https://camaroforums.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif
#488
02-16-2015, 09:30 AM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
Ride height is exactly that. It's the height of the car as it sits on the tires, with everything complete, and sometimes includes driver, but not necessary. If Ridetech says the "ride height" of their shocks is 14.5", then that is compressed, but that sure is a very long coilover. Does their kit include reinforcement for the upper shock mount, or a new crossmember to mount the top shock eyes?
I'm sure Moser would never warp a tube while welding. They have jigs to hold axles for welding, and the tools to check for straightness after they're done.
The stock spring perch is definitely NOT 90 degrees to the pinion! Since the spring plate runs close to parallel (horizontal) to the pinion, it would be mounted vertical to be 90 degrees to the pinion
I'm sure Moser would never warp a tube while welding. They have jigs to hold axles for welding, and the tools to check for straightness after they're done.
The stock spring perch is definitely NOT 90 degrees to the pinion! Since the spring plate runs close to parallel (horizontal) to the pinion, it would be mounted vertical to be 90 degrees to the pinion
#489
02-16-2015, 03:02 PM
Ride height is exactly that. It's the height of the car as it sits on the tires, with everything complete, and sometimes includes driver, but not necessary. If Ridetech says the "ride height" of their shocks is 14.5", then that is compressed, but that sure is a very long coilover. Does their kit include reinforcement for the upper shock mount, or a new crossmember to mount the top shock eyes?
I'm sure Moser would never warp a tube while welding. They have jigs to hold axles for welding, and the tools to check for straightness after they're done.
The stock spring perch is definitely NOT 90 degrees to the pinion! Since the spring plate runs close to parallel (horizontal) to the pinion, it would be mounted vertical to be 90 degrees to the pinion
I'm sure Moser would never warp a tube while welding. They have jigs to hold axles for welding, and the tools to check for straightness after they're done.
The stock spring perch is definitely NOT 90 degrees to the pinion! Since the spring plate runs close to parallel (horizontal) to the pinion, it would be mounted vertical to be 90 degrees to the pinion
Sorry for saying perpendicular to the pinion. You got my point. Parallel to the pinion.
Spring perches close to parallel, that is why Ridetech advised that their weld on brackets need to be welded vertically down which is 90 degrees perpendicular to the pinion axis. To be as close as possible to the original spring perches location, since this is a bolt on and can be bolted straight to the stock rear end if needed.
#490
02-16-2015, 09:06 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
That top mounting bracket you linked is much stronger than stock, but I'd probably do a crossmember, with both shock brackets on it. It would give the same result, but be much easier to build, easier to install, and much stronger. I'd also sandwich it to the frame rails, and the floor pan, which would really tie it all together, and make a great setup.
This upper shock crossmember setup is a good example of what I like, with one exception:
The only thing I do differently is to make multiple horizontal mounting holes for the rear shocks. This allows the rear shock angle to be changed to help tune the ride and ride height. I put the holes about 1.5"-2" apart, so as you move the top mounting point, it changes shock angle.
This one piece crossmember is what I used on my Austin, and also on my friend's '69 Nova build. I made the whole thing up outside the car, and then simply bolt or weld them in.
This upper shock crossmember setup is a good example of what I like, with one exception:
The only thing I do differently is to make multiple horizontal mounting holes for the rear shocks. This allows the rear shock angle to be changed to help tune the ride and ride height. I put the holes about 1.5"-2" apart, so as you move the top mounting point, it changes shock angle.
This one piece crossmember is what I used on my Austin, and also on my friend's '69 Nova build. I made the whole thing up outside the car, and then simply bolt or weld them in.