View Poll Results: Which engine would you get?
patriot's 383 500hp/500tq
2
16.67%
United racing 383 506hp/500tq
0
0%
phoenix muscle car 454 455hp/492-525tq
10
83.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll
which engine to get for my '81 camaro?
#1
10-22-2009, 04:03 PM
which engine to get for my '81 camaro?
ok guys, i know i have had a couple posts asking about which engine i should get for my car and i did decide on a 383 with 500hp for $6000 but now im torn between a 383 and a 454. im leaning towards the 454 now because i found one on ebay through phoenix muscle car co. for only $4700 turn key with 455hp and 492-525tq..its quite a bit cheaper and turn key..its between 3 engines, 2 383's and 1 454...
was going to post all the stats for each engine but though that would be too long of a post so im just gonna post the links:
patriot performance 383(500hp/tq)-
http://www.jegs.com/p/Patriot-Perfor...22043/10002/-1
not turn key though
united racing engines(ebay) 506hp and tq, turn key, fully forged and 3 yr warrenty
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
phoenix muscle car(ebay) 455hp and 492-525 tq, turn key, 1 yr warrenty, partly forged
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
which one would you get? the 454 seems like the best value to me though and gotta love the sound of a BB
its gonna be a weekend hot rodder
was going to post all the stats for each engine but though that would be too long of a post so im just gonna post the links:
patriot performance 383(500hp/tq)-
http://www.jegs.com/p/Patriot-Perfor...22043/10002/-1
not turn key though
united racing engines(ebay) 506hp and tq, turn key, fully forged and 3 yr warrenty
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
phoenix muscle car(ebay) 455hp and 492-525 tq, turn key, 1 yr warrenty, partly forged
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
which one would you get? the 454 seems like the best value to me though and gotta love the sound of a BB
its gonna be a weekend hot rodder
#2
10-22-2009, 06:22 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
No replacement for cubic inches, and raw torque. The 454 is more engine stock than the others highly modified, and it bolts right in too!
#3
10-22-2009, 06:45 PM
yeah it would be sweet having a big block 
i think im gonna get the 454..so i know im gonna have to upgrade the cooling system and drivetrain. For the drivetrain im gonna get a 700r4 thats build to handle up too 550hp and upgrade my 10 bolt with the posi or locker diff, 3.73 gears, and moser axels. But what stall should i get for the 454? 3000rpm?
and i know im gonna need a better radiator and fans. got any suggestions? and is there anything else i should upgrade cooling system wise?
im also gonna get subframe connectors and traction bars along with some gas shocks, sway bars and new bushings.
how does this sound? anything else im missing for a BB?
i think im gonna get the 454..so i know im gonna have to upgrade the cooling system and drivetrain. For the drivetrain im gonna get a 700r4 thats build to handle up too 550hp and upgrade my 10 bolt with the posi or locker diff, 3.73 gears, and moser axels. But what stall should i get for the 454? 3000rpm? and i know im gonna need a better radiator and fans. got any suggestions? and is there anything else i should upgrade cooling system wise?
im also gonna get subframe connectors and traction bars along with some gas shocks, sway bars and new bushings.
how does this sound? anything else im missing for a BB?
#5
10-24-2009, 02:40 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
If you check the specs on the 454 you originally were looking at you'll see it requires a 2800 or higher stall converter. Not sure on the 509, but probably the same or more. Remember, you'll want a "streetable" car, and when you get too radical it will be fun at first, but get irritating when it's giving you fits at stop lights. I personally would stick with the 454, but it's your car and money.
As for what fits; all the big and small block engines will fit right in your car. The difference is which one is easiest to drive, easiest to keep cool, and easy on the wallet to buy.
You'll need the big radiator for any hi performance engine, but that 454 is less modified, and cooling with a good full sized two row radiator with 1" rows will have no problem overheating. Probably wont even need electric fans, but if you went the dual fan route you can save a few HP for other things! The larger the cubic inches, the thinner the cylinder walls, and the more cooling you'll require.
As for what fits; all the big and small block engines will fit right in your car. The difference is which one is easiest to drive, easiest to keep cool, and easy on the wallet to buy.
You'll need the big radiator for any hi performance engine, but that 454 is less modified, and cooling with a good full sized two row radiator with 1" rows will have no problem overheating. Probably wont even need electric fans, but if you went the dual fan route you can save a few HP for other things! The larger the cubic inches, the thinner the cylinder walls, and the more cooling you'll require.
#6
10-24-2009, 03:10 PM
If you check the specs on the 454 you originally were looking at you'll see it requires a 2800 or higher stall converter. Not sure on the 509, but probably the same or more. Remember, you'll want a "streetable" car, and when you get too radical it will be fun at first, but get irritating when it's giving you fits at stop lights. I personally would stick with the 454, but it's your car and money.
As for what fits; all the big and small block engines will fit right in your car. The difference is which one is easiest to drive, easiest to keep cool, and easy on the wallet to buy.
You'll need the big radiator for any hi performance engine, but that 454 is less modified, and cooling with a good full sized two row radiator with 1" rows will have no problem overheating. Probably wont even need electric fans, but if you went the dual fan route you can save a few HP for other things! The larger the cubic inches, the thinner the cylinder walls, and the more cooling you'll require.
As for what fits; all the big and small block engines will fit right in your car. The difference is which one is easiest to drive, easiest to keep cool, and easy on the wallet to buy.
You'll need the big radiator for any hi performance engine, but that 454 is less modified, and cooling with a good full sized two row radiator with 1" rows will have no problem overheating. Probably wont even need electric fans, but if you went the dual fan route you can save a few HP for other things! The larger the cubic inches, the thinner the cylinder walls, and the more cooling you'll require.
ok cool i was wondering if it would have any clearance issues since my car wasn't made stock for big blocks. are electric fans worth the extra money? and are they a big conversion?
#7
10-24-2009, 07:29 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
Cubic inches don't make the difference in whether it fits or not. Since all the various big block engines are all externally the same, there's no difference between a 396 and that 509 motor in dimensions.
As for clearances; your car is no different inside the engine compartment than mine. If it fits in one 2nd gen Camaro, it will fit in all of them. I actually have a lot of clearance around my engine, with nothing even remotely close to hitting on frame, steering, or suspension. In fact it's way easier to change spark plugs on my 427 than it is for my friend on his 350! I can put a plug socket right on a 3/8 ratchet handle and spin them out without even a short extension.
The fans are not needed unless you have cooling issues, or just want the look. They do need a thermostat sensor attached to the block to turn them on and off, and those can be as expensive as the fans. I run a stainless steel flex fan, but I've got a big radiator that allows my engine to run at around 160 degrees down the road, and never gets over 185 even when it's idling in 100 degree temps.
I had trouble with the stock radiator after the last rebuild when I had the engine bored .040" over, and I replaced the stock big block radiator with a welded aluminum two row that's a little larger in every way over stock. Had to cut off the core support mounts and weld up a custom mount, but it was well worth it. It sits even on top, but is 2" wider and 2" lower than stock.
I also separated my trans cooler to keep transmission temps from affecting my engine temp. Just installed the biggest trans cooler I could without blocking my radiator intake.
As for clearances; your car is no different inside the engine compartment than mine. If it fits in one 2nd gen Camaro, it will fit in all of them. I actually have a lot of clearance around my engine, with nothing even remotely close to hitting on frame, steering, or suspension. In fact it's way easier to change spark plugs on my 427 than it is for my friend on his 350! I can put a plug socket right on a 3/8 ratchet handle and spin them out without even a short extension.
The fans are not needed unless you have cooling issues, or just want the look. They do need a thermostat sensor attached to the block to turn them on and off, and those can be as expensive as the fans. I run a stainless steel flex fan, but I've got a big radiator that allows my engine to run at around 160 degrees down the road, and never gets over 185 even when it's idling in 100 degree temps.
I had trouble with the stock radiator after the last rebuild when I had the engine bored .040" over, and I replaced the stock big block radiator with a welded aluminum two row that's a little larger in every way over stock. Had to cut off the core support mounts and weld up a custom mount, but it was well worth it. It sits even on top, but is 2" wider and 2" lower than stock.
I also separated my trans cooler to keep transmission temps from affecting my engine temp. Just installed the biggest trans cooler I could without blocking my radiator intake.
#8
10-25-2009, 02:17 AM
Cubic inches don't make the difference in whether it fits or not. Since all the various big block engines are all externally the same, there's no difference between a 396 and that 509 motor in dimensions.
As for clearances; your car is no different inside the engine compartment than mine. If it fits in one 2nd gen Camaro, it will fit in all of them. I actually have a lot of clearance around my engine, with nothing even remotely close to hitting on frame, steering, or suspension. In fact it's way easier to change spark plugs on my 427 than it is for my friend on his 350! I can put a plug socket right on a 3/8 ratchet handle and spin them out without even a short extension.
The fans are not needed unless you have cooling issues, or just want the look. They do need a thermostat sensor attached to the block to turn them on and off, and those can be as expensive as the fans. I run a stainless steel flex fan, but I've got a big radiator that allows my engine to run at around 160 degrees down the road, and never gets over 185 even when it's idling in 100 degree temps.
I had trouble with the stock radiator after the last rebuild when I had the engine bored .040" over, and I replaced the stock big block radiator with a welded aluminum two row that's a little larger in every way over stock. Had to cut off the core support mounts and weld up a custom mount, but it was well worth it. It sits even on top, but is 2" wider and 2" lower than stock.
I also separated my trans cooler to keep transmission temps from affecting my engine temp. Just installed the biggest trans cooler I could without blocking my radiator intake.
As for clearances; your car is no different inside the engine compartment than mine. If it fits in one 2nd gen Camaro, it will fit in all of them. I actually have a lot of clearance around my engine, with nothing even remotely close to hitting on frame, steering, or suspension. In fact it's way easier to change spark plugs on my 427 than it is for my friend on his 350! I can put a plug socket right on a 3/8 ratchet handle and spin them out without even a short extension.
The fans are not needed unless you have cooling issues, or just want the look. They do need a thermostat sensor attached to the block to turn them on and off, and those can be as expensive as the fans. I run a stainless steel flex fan, but I've got a big radiator that allows my engine to run at around 160 degrees down the road, and never gets over 185 even when it's idling in 100 degree temps.
I had trouble with the stock radiator after the last rebuild when I had the engine bored .040" over, and I replaced the stock big block radiator with a welded aluminum two row that's a little larger in every way over stock. Had to cut off the core support mounts and weld up a custom mount, but it was well worth it. It sits even on top, but is 2" wider and 2" lower than stock.
I also separated my trans cooler to keep transmission temps from affecting my engine temp. Just installed the biggest trans cooler I could without blocking my radiator intake.
do you think a be cool dual core 1" radiator will be big enough? http://www.jegs.com/p/Be-Cool-Radiat...53884/10002/-1 what radiator do you have?
do you think 502hp and 570tq would be streetable with a good suspension and tires?
yeah i saw that they have trans coolers build into some radiators. thats a good idea, i might seperate my trans cooler too when i get the new radiator. what kind of trans cooler did you get?
and do you think i could use the same MSD HEI distributor that im using in my SB, on the 454 but add a MSD 6AL ignition box?
Last edited by jason7504; 10-25-2009 at 02:15 PM.
#9
10-25-2009, 04:08 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 9,097
I have the Summit #SUM-380331, but you don't want that one unless you want to modify your core support and weld up new mounts. It's a little bigger than the direct bolt in, but not enough so for the amount of work I had to do to get hood clearance just so the hood would close. I'd go with Summit #SUM-380457 It's almost twice as much, but drops right into your support, and just needs the support opening enlarged. Easy fit!
I've got the Flexalite FLX-4120 from Summit for a tras cooler. It's 7.5"x20", and will handle the most extreme cooling needs. Cheap at $43.
I've got the Flexalite FLX-4120 from Summit for a tras cooler. It's 7.5"x20", and will handle the most extreme cooling needs. Cheap at $43.
