Hi All,

I have a customer's 1967 Camaro in for a restoration. He seems hopeful, despite the trim tag and VIN indicating a 6 cylinder stripper, that it is some kind of factory SS big block that was assembled after the trim tag and VIN, like a late production order of sorts.

He just brought me the block and trans, we found that the numbers indeed match the VIN, but I am suspicious about how genuine it is. Trans and block surfaces seem inconsistent with surrounding material?

Body tag VIN - 123677N224353

Cowl Tag - 05D 67-12467 NOR124160 717-Z E-1

396 - 3902406 - 7N224353

4 speed 3885010 (tag - 3870357) which appears to be an M20 - 7N224353

I'd appreciate any feedback and opinions about the look of these numbers please.

Thank you,

Greg

 

Interesting,I see it has disc brakes,not something a 6 banger stripper would have.
Does it have the correct big block radiator and heater core?
Does it have a 12 bolt rear end?
Those would be indicators as well,by the looks of the car if it was cloned it was done a long long time ago.
That would also be an indicator in my eyes,40 years ago most didn't worry about faking numbers as they were just not as high value as today.

 

The question is not what it was as much as what you can prove. First you would have to prove such a think ever happened. There is nothing, I mean nothing, that can not be faked or remanufactured or forged. As an experiment one enthusiast built a numbers matching, big block convertible Z28. He had all the aged documentation it was all numbers matching. Problem was GM never built a 69 big block Z28 or a Z28 convertible.

The only thing you could get in trouble for changing is the VIN number. The one numbers on the car that had a DOT standard was the VIN number. Would GM violate the the DOT standard to build a late 1967 SS Car? Why not just build the original car as it was documented and build the SS in 68. There are many documented cases of using last years parts on the next years cars. Just look at the hood vents. Its pretty common to see photos from back in the day of 68's with 67 hood vents. I have never heard of a Vin number violation that was planned so far out that the motor/trans got the proper Vin number but the Vin was incorrect for the car. Maybe a COPO car but a dealer car? Another concern, people have tried to come up with excuses on why their I6 vin car was really an SS since the 80's.

Cowl tags can be custom ordered. Blocks transmission and rear ends can be restamp.

It is easy think they just did it to make more money but they could not make these cars fast enough. They built 220,000 in it first year and that is with a late start. That blows away most modern model releases. To put that into prospective in the 2010 re-release GM sold under 90,000 car and there was a waiting list up to 6 months.

For this car to have any value more then a Clone it will need evaluated and authenticated buy a well known Camaro authenticator. That can be hard to do even if the Vin was correct but the car was taken all a part.

 

I agree with Gorn - He always has great and helpful info. An easy check for bb v sb is the heater hose location along the firewall. bb came through to the far passenger side while others came through just behind the number 8 cylinder. On the 6 it would have been the same as sb. The car does not look like a chop job but who knows.

 

I mentioned that as well but it may have been changed,I did just that on my old '69 when I swapped in a big block in place of a 327.