I noticed, after I got my car back from the shop for some body work, that the starter didn't quite sound right.

I asked around and people suggested I needed to shim the starter.

I researched this and found that, indeed, I needed to shim the starter. There is about a 1" gap between the starter and the flywheel—apparently there needs to be about an 1/8" gap.

I purchased some shims, I think the total depth of all the shims is about 1/2", tightened up the starter and measured the distance to the flywheel. I still have significant space between the two.

What's the problem here? I can't imagine that I would need to add more shims...

 

You must have checked the gap between the starter motor shaft and the flywheel. What you want to check is the gear mesh (tip of one gear to valley of the other gear). That's where your measurement comes in. For reference, a straightened "large" paper clip can be used as a feeler gauge.

 

After several iterations of shims, I thought I found the right set. The starter was no longer grinding with the metallic scraping; instead the starter would just whir. I had the shop check it out and somehow the solenoid decided to stop working.

Replaced that, put the starter back in with the shim configuration that didn't create a grinding noise, but now the starter is not always kicking over. If I turn the ignition to the "on" position, I can hear the solenoid push out the gear (?). When I crank the ignition, sometimes the starter will attempt to start the car, other times it doesn't respond at all. I double checked the wiring to the starter and made sure nothing was inadvertently grounded. All that seemed fine. Finally, when the starter does attempt to kick over, it cranks on the fly wheel for a few chugs then stops and continues to whir. It's almost like the starter catches the flywheel then retracts.

The grinding I think I can figure out with the right configuration of shims. The intermittent starter silence is bugging me. Any suggestions?

 

tnomi,

something doesn't add up here.

First of all did you put ALL the shims in the package?? 1/2 inch of shims were required !!??

I have only had experience with my own car, but I only needed two of the shims in the package which barely amounted to 1/16" of an inch. I understand that there is a lot of variation, but 1/2" sounds wrong.

Follow Chucks' recommendation and see what the clearance between the valley of one gear to the tip of the other is. If it is 1/2" I would suggest that there is something seriously wrong.

Vic

 

Is this a new engine, flexplate, or starter? Sound slike you've got the wrong flexplate for the engine! Maybe a starter for a 168 tooth flexplate, but a 153 tooth flexplate was installed????? I've never heard of using anything near 1/8", let alone 1/2" or more! That's crazy!

 

Most of the time when people complain about "grinding" it because the starter is too far from the flex plate. Then a Shim may need remove or reduced. When they complain that the starter is sticking its too close. When a starter is too close a .020-.030 shime normally fixs the issue. A .5 shime is insane on a car that was already working.

 

OK. I finally figured out what was happening. I had my SO attempt to start the car while I was under it.

The pop, or knock, I was hearing when attempting to start the car was the starter wheel hitting the flywheel and not engaging—hence the reason for the starter not turning anything over. Every once in a while the starter wheel would engage and turn the flywheel, but after a few spins, the starter would stop turning the starter wheel, and the starter just made the whirring noise.

I took it into the shop, and they suggested a new starter. I'm sure I could have replaced yet another part with the starter to fix it, but I was over it at that point. I just wanted to get the damn thing to run. I opted for a mini starter—about $170. Got home, attached that thing to the block (no shims), crawled into the car fully expecting nothing, and the car roared to life for the first time in about six months.

Saga over; some lessons learned. If at all possible, always have someone help you so you can fully diagnose a problem before asking opinions. It's best to have all the information first. Secondly, for headaches sake, it might be better to buy new parts than repair older ones—jury still out on that.

Thank you all for your input. It gave me some stuff to chew on between repair sessions. Camaro 69—You were right about the distance from the starter wheel mesh to the flywheel. I was totally confused; your description helped me out a lot!

 

when the starter is bolted in there should be 5/16ths between edge of teeth and the shaft of the starter i had an issue with my 350 in my chevelle eating flexplates and starters and found when bolted in my starters were at almost 9/16ths with no shims!!??
so i took my starter to a friends shop and had him mill 1/8th off the housing (body) of the starter and havent had a problem since!!!!

 

The simplest way to set up a starter is to remove the solenoid and bolt the starter up to the block. Then simply pull the plunger for the solenoid out and look at the starter to flaywheel engagement. This way you can keep it out while measuring clearance and not have to get a second person to keep hitting the key while you try to see what's happening.
Once you've determined what shims you might need (or not) you can pull the starter, reinstall the solenoid and shims, then bolt it up and you're done.