327 Small Block Idiling Questions.

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Old 05-23-2010, 12:18 PM
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Default 327 Small Block Idiling Questions.

I recently purchased my first 1968 Camaro that is about 90% complete. There are several "mini projects" that I'm working through and would appreciate some assistance from the knowledgeable members of this forum as I consider myself to be a novice at this point.

68 Camaro Stats.
-327 V8 Small block (0.30" boared/flat top pistons)
-202 Valves/World Headers
-Carter AFB carb
-3 Speed Auto
-3000 Stall convertor
-Turbo 350 or 150 tranny (cant remember, sure one of those dont exist)
-12 Bolt rear end
-Power track locker rear end with 4/10 gears
-Air Shocks in the rear (would like to replace one day)
-4 wheel drum brakes (going to buy front disc conversion from yearone.com unless otherwise recommended)

Have really two issues at this point that I could use a little guidance on.
  1. Car idles and at about 1200RPM in park. Went put it in gear and it drops about 100-200 RPM putting me at 1000 in gear. The car wants to jump a little and sometimes the tires give a little squeal. Lowered the idle to about 1000 RPM, put in gear car lowers to about 800-900 and it wants to shut off as a result. What is the correct setting for idle speed in PARK and when in gear? I would like to know how I can prevent the car from wanting to jump when put in gear.
  2. Gas gauge doesn't reflect actual gas amount in car. It has a reading and varies with the amount of fuel in the car, but doesn't match. Where do I start with that one and what is the device in the tank that measures the gas called?
I conceptually understand mechanics and can figure out how things work relatively quickly, but I get hung up on terminology and functionality of parts that are not clearly visible. Last question! What is the best source of reference for working on 68 camaros besides this forum (Haynes, GM service manual, etc)?
 
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:44 PM
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1. Your carb may just need a tune up; idle jets, choke, etc. Also check everywhere for any possible vacuum leaks. Here's the Edelbrock owners manual with helpful info (Edelbrock is based on the Carter design): http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ers_manual.pdf
2. If the gas gauge is "working", but not accurately, then the sending unit is giving a false reading. You'll need to replace it, but you have to drop the gas tank since the unit drops in from the top. Not very hard, just a little time consuming.
A good manual to have is this GM Chassis Service Manual.
 
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:26 PM
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Thanks for the info.

Is it a good idea to order a carb kit before I start taking it apart or do the gaskets, jets, springs, etc. hold up good enough typically?
 
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:45 PM
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I'm somewhat confused by it locking up so hard when put in gear if it has a 3000 rpm stall converter? With that extremely high stall speed it should not chirp the tires and pull when put into gear. Sounds like it may be a stock type converter, not a 3000.
Your car should easily idle at around 800 in park, and drop down to around 650 in gear, unless it's gotten a much larger cam also. I saw no specs on the cam, and it's tough to say an idle for sure without knowing what the duration and lift specs on the cam are?
 
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:25 PM
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Got some more info from the original owner. The cam shaft is a Crane and has 0.625 lift. Is that decent? He said that after that CAM was replaced they set it 1200 at idle because of the CAM. Does that sound right? I sort of confirmed that it has the 3000 stall converter based on how it shifts with mopar guy riding shot gun. Shifts really hard and fast between 1-2 at a higher RPM. What should I start looking at to prevent it from chirping when I put it in gear?
 
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rkiefer2
Got some more info from the original owner. The cam shaft is a Crane and has 0.625 lift. Is that decent? He said that after that CAM was replaced they set it 1200 at idle because of the CAM. Does that sound right? I sort of confirmed that it has the 3000 stall converter based on how it shifts with mopar guy riding shot gun. Shifts really hard and fast between 1-2 at a higher RPM. What should I start looking at to prevent it from chirping when I put it in gear?
.625 is a fairly lumpy cam,1200rpm idle sounds about right and with a somewhat rough idle at that I would think.
Still a 3000 stall TC means you shouldn't kick into gear till about 3000 rpms so something doesn't jive there.
Once you are in gear and accelerating the stall speed of the TC has nothing to do with how or when the trans shifts.
Sounds like the T350 trans has a performance shift kit in it to me but the TC is probably stock or at least no where near a 3000 stall.
That is where your trouble is,the high and rough idle of the cam doesn't like the low stall speed of the TC,stock engines idle at 1000rpm or less.
With a cam that big it doesn't like to idle below 1200rpm so with the TC pulling it down to a lower idle it may run rough and die or as we used to say "lobe out",if it does stay running it may chirp going into gear and you'll have to keep your foot on the brake because it wants to move the car at 1200rpm.
 

Last edited by Y2K; 05-23-2010 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:29 PM
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Ditto what Y2K said! You wont get that cam to allow you to idle lower and still not die when it's put in gear. But you certainly don't have a 3000 rpm stall TC. If you did it would not pull the engine down and chirp when you put it in gear.
The answer to fixing your problem is to replace the torque converter with a proper high stall converter to handle the extremely high lift .625" cam. You probably don't need a 3000 stall TC, but you will want something close to that. A small block cam with .625" lift is a monster most likely desgined to run optimately in the 4,000-7,000 rpm range, and not particularly suited for a car with an automatic on the street. I'd seriously consider changing the cam, or having a really good transmission guy look at your whole tranny and TC!
Take a look at the specs on similar cams. They're all designed for racing purposes, not street cars:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...5%20lift&dds=1

"Designed for drag racing, these cams from Crane produce the power and torque necessary for drag racing."
"These racing camshafts from Crane are designed to provide the torque and power you need in the high rpm ranges. These cams are available for a variety of applications in mechanical, hydraulic roller, and flat tappet styles to suit your needs."
 

Last edited by 1971BB427; 05-24-2010 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:01 PM
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Thanks for the information everybody. Had someone come and take a look at it today and determined that the Carter AFB carb needs to be rebuilt/replaced. I think it may have been a fluke when it was chirping into gear as we were able to get it to idle around 1000ish in park and 800-900 in gear.

When we adjusted the fuel mixture screws it seemed to have little to no affect on the engine running. Long story short we determined that the carb should be replaced and that the timing is slightly ahead.

Now I have a carter AFB carb on it now. I know the benefit to going with a replacement carter or Edelbrock is that I dont have to replace the manifold. Well my buddy has a new manifold that he is willing to give me. Should I go with a Holley, Carter replacement, or Edelbrock? 650 CFM? I would prefer a carb that doesnt need constant adjustment as I dont feel that I have a tuned ear at this point to identify if the vehicle is running to lean or rich. On the other hand I dont want to sacrifice performance or power. Recommendations?

I really appreciate any everyone's advise and attention to detail to these topics it really reaffirms these forms and helps build the muscle car brethren.
 
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rkiefer2
Thanks for the information everybody. Had someone come and take a look at it today and determined that the Carter AFB carb needs to be rebuilt/replaced. I think it may have been a fluke when it was chirping into gear as we were able to get it to idle around 1000ish in park and 800-900 in gear.

When we adjusted the fuel mixture screws it seemed to have little to no affect on the engine running. Long story short we determined that the carb should be replaced and that the timing is slightly ahead.

Now I have a carter AFB carb on it now. I know the benefit to going with a replacement carter or Edelbrock is that I dont have to replace the manifold. Well my buddy has a new manifold that he is willing to give me. Should I go with a Holley, Carter replacement, or Edelbrock? 650 CFM? I would prefer a carb that doesnt need constant adjustment as I dont feel that I have a tuned ear at this point to identify if the vehicle is running to lean or rich. On the other hand I dont want to sacrifice performance or power. Recommendations?

I really appreciate any everyone's advise and attention to detail to these topics it really reaffirms these forms and helps build the muscle car brethren.
Nothing in this post makes any sense,first off if you really have a .625 lift cam it would not idle that low,second an AFB is an even bore carb so most any Holley that's not a spread bore like a Rochester Quadrajet should bolt on in place of the AFB if that is indeed what you have.
Lastly if your motor is built enough to have a 625 lift cam it will be under carbed with a 650,before you ask any more questions you need to verify just what you really are working with,none of what you have put forward here adds up dude.
 
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Y2K
Nothing in this post makes any sense,first off if you really have a .625 lift cam it would not idle that low,second an AFB is an even bore carb so most any Holley that's not a spread bore like a Rochester Quadrajet should bolt on in place of the AFB if that is indeed what you have.
Lastly if your motor is built enough to have a 625 lift cam it will be under carbed with a 650,before you ask any more questions you need to verify just what you really are working with,none of what you have put forward here adds up dude.
I didn't correct the guy, but I figured he was talking about his actual maximum valve lift.
With conventional 1.5 rockers, that would make his cam lobe lift .416~.417 (.417 x 1.5 = .6255).
 


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