wonder if there is going to be provisions... like EVERYTHING has to be American made (like the other companies that have been bailed out). that sure would make things interesting wouldn't it? ofcourse there is the thought that if unions were taken out of the picture, we might be able to afford to make everything here and put Americans back to work.

 

did you guys see the report from this morning? apparently UAW ceded some ground and agreed (with about 74% majority vote among its members) to GM cutting some labor costs through a new contract that "freezes wages, ends bonuses, eliminates noncompetitive work rules and ends the possibility of a strike until the next contract expires in 2015." (msnbc report - Union approves deal with GM to cut labor costs)...

i didn't see anything about long-tied-in pensions but this at least looks like a start...additionally they did mention that some union members who work at plants that are slated to be closed (or temporarily on "standby" until sales rise) voted for the revised contract to cut the labor costs with about a 70% majority...

this seems like a hint of good news...at least the ball is rolling and people are willing to cooperate for the greater good of the company...

oh yeah and about the "all american camaro" hahhaa lol i agree...i don't much have a problem with it anymore it's not like it's any poorer quality parts and assemblies than here...most of the mexican plants learned all processes from the americans so if it's poor quality coming from there it's because the americans still haven't been able to master the six sigma quality process and transfer it to their lower cost ventures in mexico...

i actually just went to mexico 2 months ago (chihuahua city, chihuahua - where many of the automakers have plants) where i did a week long project and study on manufacturing processes and plants down there and believe me the manufacturing processes in Mexico are anything but Third World quality, contrary to what many people might think...it is true that the maquiladora sector taking part in these manufacturing processes historically dealt in products that required low skill and much physical labor, but the maquiladora sector has evolved in three distinct eras from those traditional low skill products (and typically lower quality, arguably) to medium skill level products and technologies to high-end technologies and processes...Prime examples of the high-end technologies and processes nowadays in Mexico are Delphi, Jabil, and Visteon (and additionally Interceramic - a tile company that is Mexican-owned and operated and whose manufacturing plants only employ about 30-40 people!!! imagine that much automation for just tiles! it was amazing when i toured the factory and robotic forklifts were roaming and locating finished product while they communicated with the completely automated assembly line and the only workers i ever really saw were engineers monitoring the kiln temperatures and operations...) so i personally don't mind the "outsourcing" of these parts if that's what you want to call it because it really doesn't translate to lower quality parts it just goes along with the theory of competitive advantage where Mexico can more effectively build certain parts...although with this argument it would be logical that GM would focus on something else (i.e. selling cars and marketing their financing to customers!!!!) that it can do more effectively, which obviously hasn't happened and shouldn't have an excuse and in order to become profitable again GM does need to get their stuff together!!

actually the Ford engine plant in Chihuahua, Mexico (i didn't get a chance to tour it but have studied it along with this project) is Ford's most efficient engine production plant in the world...

like i said...GM's case is definitely a complicated one, but it can turn things around if it starts opening it's eyes to reality and accepting the fact that if they don't open their eyes to reality in the international marketplace the japanese and other foreign car companies will drive them out of the marketplace and even more americans will lose their jobs in the long run (from the executive level, to the foremen, to the assembly line workers, to the dealers, and to the various workers and mechanics that work at the dealerships)...big consequences for failure

 

I read about the UAW and I was a bit shocked... shocked that they are not going on strike for raises... they have done this a number of times. I remember watching the local union president when all this started to hit the fan telling people that everything was fine and they were not prepared to give in or make any consessions to help GM out.

 

My Camaro that I ordered in January was scheduled to be delivered to the dealer on 6/21/09 but now that this bankruptcy looms who knows how it will effect the delivery. Does any one know if Camaro's ordered in January or before are going to be delayed even further?

I sure in hell hope not!!

Russ

 

I wonder how the courts will decide on the bondholders - and what will happen to the markets overall if they are all zapped. Heck - $27 billion in unsecured debt evaporating all at once will put a heck of a dent in alot of 401k's/mutual funds, even if they didn't have GM (or Chrysler) in their portfolios.

In any case, they'd probably be left with "bad GM", along with their closed factories, Pontiac, Hummer, Saab and Saturn. The problem is, they'd probably get jack regardless.

 

my guess is the unions are gonna take cuts, the pensions are gonna take a hit, people who are owed money (such as the taxpayers) are gonna get screwed... then when its all said and done, GM will come out smelling like a rose with no debt.

 

At least we'll get to see 6th gen camaros right?

 

haha I'm sure... 5th gen will prolly be a short one... 6th gen will be the break out.

 

the delivery of your camaro shouldn't be affected much...perhaps delayed but it will still be delivered and after all this time what's another week or two (hopefully that's all it would be delayed)...but i can understand the concern especially after waiting all this time for your car (i'm just at the beginning end of that long wait)

believe me i was concerned about the same thing because i barely just ordered mine this last week so i have quite a bit of uncertainty placing an order the same week as they file for bankruptcy!! but it should not affect the orders especially since chevrolet is slated to go into the "good GM"...

yeah the bondholders are getting royally screwed and then how about the current stockholders? lol once the courts convert the bondholders' claims to equity and the US and Canadian governments also have about 70 percent control basically anyone who owns any GM stock loses almost complete value with their watered down excuse for equity...

ha and like you said...GM comes out smelling like a rose right? you would think that after the 70's when the japanese car makers actually started to become legitimate in the international marketplace the american car companies would start getting their stuff together...what's sad to me is that whenever a domestic "crisis" like this happens for such a huge industry (we saw a lot of protectionism in the U.S. steel industry a few years ago through massive tariff rates on foreign steel, which resulted in massive international retaliatory tariffs and which we ultimately had to dismantel earlier than originally planned) the industry doesn't have any incentive to change because they have this temporary sense of security that doesn't force them to fight for their survival and innovate!

i mean look at what happened in much of latin america throughout the 20th century...which is actually why in perception and at least in part reality some parts of latin america are behind north america in certain industries and processes...prime example is the telecommunications industry in mexico....long nationalized and protected and inefficient as **** lol...even after it was privatized to Carlos Slim it has not really improved dramatically because the competition factor is not there! (exactly what we're shielding american car companies from) and actually the exact same thing is still going on in mexico in the petroleum industry which is 100% nationalized and one of the most inefficient in the world, yet like the union issue in the United States it's a polemic issue that nobody wants to tackle...

the sad thing is that there are people that know what has to be done...but they are either not bold enough or in the position to implement reality for these companies or society does not permit reality to be implemented due to high social costs...but in the long run society pays the price anyways as we the people (i mean we the taxpayers lol) continue to believe that inefficiency should be rewarded in the short run so that we the people (oops i mean we the taxpayers lol) may revisit the issue in the future and pay the price again...

we the taxpayers can only hope that the administration requires some major innovation and improvements along with all the "fat trimming" and that also those innovations may be obtainable and sustainable (ha unintentional rhyme...wasn't trying to be cheesy there haha)...this is often what so many people don't understand is that yeah temporarily we may have an expensive government bailout and they might require some higher standards but those standards in all reality only get raised temporarily and never last past the protection period or they at least never go any further than the minimum without the competitive factor and need to survive in the marketplace...if GM had been able to pull through without this help and trimmed the fat without being forced to they would have come out stronger than any of the other domestic car companies...a free market system will only continue to play itself out like this over and over again if these companies can't find a way to level the playing field in the long run with their own innovation for their own survival

i'll be interested to see what the camaro does for sales...from what the salepeople were telling me i would think that it's going to help but then again it did come from a salesman hahaha and also because the camaro alone cannot save the entire GM lol...

but i'll be interested to see how far ahead lies the release of the 6th gen...i do believe that camaro sales this year at least are going to blow the mustang away and ford won't even come close (and this is coming from a current ford mustang owner lol)...i guess we shall soon see what happens

 

I think that what the current govt is going to do (because GM is high profile) is make things work no matter what the cost. and they will use this as an example of how things are going to be (its all smoke and mirrors in my opinion). hahaha I think there might be a lil diversion to take the attention away for a lil bit... (that lil north korea issue). thats a topic for another day tho.