so the reports are saying that GM's bankruptcy is all but imminent...what do you guys think?

they say that GM is supposed to be split up into "good GM" and "bad GM" if it does go into bankruptcy...

i just placed the order for my camaro a few days ago and now i'm a little uneasy or at least confused about what's gonna happen with "my new baby"...what do you guys think happens to the orders in the system still being built, the orders in the system waiting to be built, and the orders still in preliminary order status?

unfortunately my order is still in prelim because the dealership with which i placed the order has sold so many camaros and has to seek allocation from GM every time a new order is placed with them (and they're not allowed inventory either), which takes about 5 weeks on average to proceed to actual order status...i have already put down the deposit so i guess that helps but still, what do you guys think is going to happen with the bankruptcy and how do you guys think it'll affect all those who placed their orders?

lets see if we can get an interesting discussion going!

 

Not much to talk about, From what I have read GM will bankrupt. I think they even stated in their last offer to the bond holder "While under bankruptcy court protection" In bankruptcy they need to convince the judge it is the best intrest of the dept holders to keep the company alive vs selling everything and giving up. GM closing will not be an issue. Legally your down money could be made part of the bankrupcy but GM is still building cars (unless the dealer still has it), everyone involved wants the rest of your money

The only people that are screwed are the common stock holders and some of their vendor will have to wait to be paid. On June 1st their comon stock becomes worthless. It's not like they did not have warnings. I bought in when there was still a chance they may not go Bankrupt but I got back out in the beginning of May when they still did not have a plan.

 

well i've been hearing this news for a long time now.. so expect the worst..

 

IMHO, i think bankruptcy is a good thing for the General. The unions have run this company into the ground. Compounded by poor planning at the hands of those making the decisions. While the foreign makes are producing cars at a far cheaper hourly rate that makes them also more "recession proof" as well. The government is also to blame. With these crazy CAFE standards and all the other red tape that keep our domestic car companies fighting with one hand tied behind their backs. Not much can be done about the government but I do believe the union will have to go. That alone would make a big difference in the way GM operates. If GM files then they will have the chance to do that very thing. I fail to see why the unions are so willing to ride GM to the bitter end. I understand the people who work for the unions are making great money for their famlies and are used to a certain standard of living but what kind of a standard would they have if GM was to completely close down? I am afraid that the only way things will change is when all domestic car companies are in the same boat and the U.S. is looking at a collapse of its domestic makers. Maybe then all parties involved will pull their collective heads out of their "third points of contact".

 

yeah i agree that the unions would definitely have to cede some ground in order for GM to compete with the japanese car makers (who learned all their processes from the americans back in the sixties and seventies through joint ventures and perfected them [i.e. six sigma, which the american car companies haven't even come close to employing in their quality]). also the pensions that were locked in so long ago for a lot of these union workers are something that is non existent for the japanese carmakers and no matter how much GM has known for a long time that in order to cut costs and get back on the road to profitability they need to (for lack of a better word) "snip the fat" they still haven't been able to do it because, ethically, abandoning the commitments to the unions and pensions would have severe consequences for them...so basically they're between a rock and a hard place if they can't "trim the fat" in all possible ways...

now i do want to clarify that i am in no way denouncing the contributions and hard work these workers have done for the american car companies, but as someone with a degree in international business management i know that social interests and profits unfortunately do not coincide 100% of the time and that international competition drives innovation and long term profitablity...i'm not proposing that we exploit workers and widen the gap between the middle and upper class, however, i do admit that the american car companies are lacking on six sigma quality processes and the ability to reasonably cut pension and other costs of dealing with unions...unions are noble in their original purpose and in what they attempt to do in standing up for rights of workers (especially middle class workers who are often marginalized), but unions many times get lost in their own bureaucracy and end up doing harm after blowing a lot of smoke.

one thing that must be avoided above all is providing a "curtain of protection" for domestic car companies because they will not have incentive to change or to innovate...above all, any kind of bailout has to avoid this tendency because it only ends up harming all those involved in the chain of the company (executives, managers, foremen, assembly line workers, dealers, etc...) because if at the end of the bailout the company can still not compete and is still 5-10 years behind the competition in process and innovation the company will fail anway.

i agree that these things need to be addressed to compete internationally again but i'm not sure if that can happen if bankruptcy occurs and the Obama administration temporarily assumes control of the board (reports are estimating that such move would put U.S. and Canadian control of GM's board at about 70%, the majority of that being U.S.-held) because, not to denounce the president, but he seems to place social matters above profits (which is ethically reasonable and important i must admit) and in an international marketplace where the competition will not put in place the same "restrictions" that U.S. car makers must face and where car sales have perpetually declined i can't see those necessary changes being made and having an effective and long-lasting benefit for the american car companies (in this case GM).

now granted, i'm sure that once bankruptcy happens and GM trims the "bad GM" away and focuses on its core competency vehicles and core competency financing strategies it will be taking the first step. but i don't know if they can make the full turn-around to compete head-to-head with other foreign car companies but who knows...then again a multi-billion dollar bailout from the government does give a support network and advantage that many foreign companies don't have the "privilege" of having, still with such support comes closer restriction and regulation on these companies and like i said i'm not sure that these regulations will go in the right direction under the Obama administration because i don't think Obama will want to cede ground on unions and pensions to middle class workers that were tied in a long time ago. Obama promotes the protection of middle and lower class americans and i can't see him liking a strategy that eliminates pensions to these persons and loosens the unions' holds on the companies because that seems to go against what he stands for...unfortunately the real world sometimes creates conflicts like this

but who knows...i definitely know that the bankruptcy will be the most complicated in history (or one of the most complicated)...but maybe i'm not seeing some factors in the big picture or perhaps the Obama administration will be effective on turning these companies around...as of now it's all speculation so let's see what everyone thinks...

traditionally, the theory of competitive advantage would dictate that the American car companies just gravitate towards some other industry in which it can effectively and profitably partake and abandon the inefficient industries in which it can no longer compete...but i think we can agree (at least at this point in time) that in all reality the U.S. government won't allow that because it would mean massive job losses so maybe that will be the key for the administration to implement and balance reality, profitability, and social equity

who knows...

 

and one more thing to mention is that although it is noble and important that the government is starting to require higher mpg in coming years, this can't be accomplished just by imposing the higher efficiency and saying the companies will face sanctions, fines, or whatever they decide upon but there actually has to be some way for these companies to find the way to implement this kind of innovation and technology...and historically innovation has not come out of government protectionism but rather from free market systems that essentially force a survival of the fittest...

so if all the government does when bailing out these companies is protect them temporarily and impose more restrictions without allowing them to level the playing field with the japanese car makers, they cannot get to that level and maintain it in the long run...

and can we all agree that the long run is what's most important for everyone? including the middle class workers who depend on these jobs?

GM's case is definitely a complicated one but i do agree that bankruptcy is imminent now and that they do need to trim some fat and get with the program...

 

oh i was going to clarify...i'm a college senior pursuing a bba in international business management with a concentration in latin america and a minor in Spanish...

i don't have my degree quite yet...so yeah i don't want to take credit for a degree i don't have quite yet...lol almost there though!

so these are just my interpretations of what's going on...if anyone else sees it going differently with the bankruptcy and bailout for GM and other domestic car companies i'm open for an interesting discussion!

this type of stuff is what fascinates me and it's what my company specializes in...(i'm also the owner of a company i started that specializes in developing innovative and customizable language-learning programs for high-end markets and international strategy and marketing consulting) i love these kind of discussions...lol

 

just be ready and expect the worst!....

 

soooo.... I'm sure everyone saw this coming a long time ago. I mean if the economy stalls, the car sales are gonna take a big hit (putting things very simply). its common sense. so how smart was it to give them billions (I say give because they aint gonna pay it back...) rather than let things take their course and they would be out of bankruptcy and on their way to recovery by now.

 

So the future of GM is parts from Mexico & Assemby in Canada. Come drive The USA in you All American Camaro.