So winters coming up soon and if I can find a winter car, I want to put away the Camaro but pull the engine to rebuild from the oil pan up. Any ideas on what the cost is going to be? I know I'll need all new gaskets and seals (anybody know where to find a good deal on all of them?), the heads done, the crankshaft and block done, new cam. Am I missing anything? Ha.

I will probably also add in headers and Y-pipe to the mix since it'll be easier to install with the engine out.

 

it's semantics but you'll be "dropping the engine"


Cost???? That is entirely up to you and what you want as the end result.

If you are serious, have the time and the MONEY then speak with your local machine shops.

if this is just a passing thought then don't contact the machine shops and just get ideas on the forum. I never suggest speaking with a pro and taking their valuable time unless you have the cash and are 100% serious.

So, what would you like for the end result (please don't say 500HP !!!) and how much do you really have to spend?

 

Got to love semantics. But I may end up going out the top instead of out the bottom. All depends. Anyways...

500HP might be just a tad too much for what I want.

I want it to stay a daily driver for sure, but still be able to throw be back in my seat when I throw the lead foot down. If I can keep it under $2500, that'd be nice. Like I said though it'll be parked for the winter so that gives me from about late November to mid March to work on it.

I checked Summit, and a rebuild kit is roughly $600 and that includes new forged aluminum pistons.

I know I will need new pushrods (and preferably stronger ones) because 1 or 2 of mine are very slightly bent.

I know a guy who can resurface my heads for free or cheap. My father can do the block if it's not too bad. He can also port/polish the heads and intake, so that'll cut down costs there.

I'm not sure if I want (or need) to get new rods or not yet.

I want a bigger TB, probably 58mm, to go with the intake and heads. Headers are a must.

As far as a cam goes, honestly, I'm not sure what one would be good for me. I was thinking maybe the LT4 Hot Cam?

So by my calculations I'm around $1500 or so. I'm sure I missed something though.

 

Turning the crank, boring the block, new valve guides (valve job) resizing the Rods. Cam and lifters alone are going to be close to $1000. I doubt you could do a real stock rebuild for 2500 unless your rebulding a motor with 50K or less miles on it.

 

118,xxx miles on it now. 109,xxx back when I bought it. And it was down to the bare block then and cylinder walls looked amazing for being that many miles. Since then, it's never been run hard and has had three oil changes, and before the leak was fixed, it was getting about a 1/4 of a quart of oil once every two or three weeks.

Well, I'm using the $2500 as a starting point. I can go a bit higher, but I also don't see all of this being done all at one time. I am going to be on a budget.

 

It will all depend on your Goal. IMO when someone says the motor was rebuilt that means the motor was completely disassemble everything was inspected to factory specs and anything found out of spec was repaired or replaced. When your “rebuild” is complete it should be as good or better then a factory new motor. If you goal is like new motor with a factory configuration it is almost always cheaper to get a remanufactured engine then it is to rebuild a 100K motor.

Cylinders can look great but you need to measure the bore at the lower part (currently hidden by the pistons) and check for out of round. If any one of the cylinders is greater than .005 out of round then the motor should be bored. Would I be shocked if it does not need bored? No, it is just uncommon for a motor with over 100K to not need bored. Remember new rings are round your old rings are the shape of the cylinder. It can take a long time for new rings to wear out of round if the out of round is greater than .005. The two major things that cause out of round are out of your control, it’s the V8 design and the fit between the piston and the cylinder from the factory. Due to the V8 design your cylinder are out of round the only question is by how much. Also driving habits are more of a factor then the oil as most of the out of round is caused by piston slap. If I plan on spending the money on getting new pistons I always recommend getting the cylinder bored. New rings in a worn cylinder can cost you HP.

Crank also wear out of round. I did not look up the LT1 but lets say your main bearing clearance is .001”-.003”. I like to hit between .0015 and .0020 to make a tight engine and holds good oil pressure. You cannot hit that if your crank is .0015-.0020 out of round (which is pretty common on 100K+ motors). If you have out of round you want to get the crank ground and undersized bearing installed. Also if there is any funny wear on the mains you should get the main line bore checked.

Camshaft/Timing chain, well they wear, valves not opening all the way or at the wrong time is a huge HP stealer. Cam bearing wear as much as any bearing in the motor and if not address will cause low oil pressure. Even if you do not replace the cam you should replace the Cam bearings and the timing chain.
Connecting rods. I don’t even mess around measuring these because they are not great new from the factory. Any time I do even a repair and I have the pistons out I get the rods resized and get the crappy factory rod bolts replaced. Most of the time when an engine fails from over reving it’s the factory rod bolts that give up first.


Oil pump, This is the heart of the motor. Unless you are building a dyno queen then a good High pressure, High volume pump is the way to go and do not skimp on the pump you will regret it.

Valves need to seal the face to contact is a single line that can be .003-.008 wide. The valve guide job is to keep the valve in line with the valve seat. As the guide wears the valve becomes slightly misaligned cause leakage. This is another HP stealer. Whenever you replace the guide you change the position of the valve so you need to recut the valve seat. You could skip the valve grinding if they look and lap good.

You have 118K on your motor I assume you want this rebuild to last 100K so the question come in which system can handle 218K? I am the conservative on these forums, I don’t play the odds. I found over the years people will whine about a bill but three years later when the car is still running like new they have forgotten about the sting and they will recommend you to everyone. You do a cheap job and the customer will be happy today and hate you in two year. Same will apply for a do it yourselfer do half way job and you will be mad at yourself.

Don’t get me wrong, if you want to through some bearings in there while replacing the mains go for it but don’t fool yourself that you motor is anything but a 118K motor with new bearing in it. All the above little things do add up. One comment I use to get a lot after a rebuild is “I forgot how powerful this car was” .

The economic way to a good dependable STOCK motor in your car is to buy a low miles used motor and go through it and check for anything out of whack and replace all the seals and gaskets. Second is the Reman motor, True rebuilding should be left for guy who plan on building a motor for more HP or for keeping a car numbers matching. Unless you are doing as a learning project, it is a great way to learn if you do it right.

 

Gorn nailed it and allow me to add to that. Who knows, maybe it's that we've been around the horn a few times......

if you buy a stock rebuild kit then that is the cheapest part of the entire equation

you mentioned a buddy and your dad

Please explain to us the setup your buddy has to restore the cylinder heads. What tools does he have to create new valve seats? Do you plan on using the old valves or will you also be buying new valves? Each requires a money investment. has your buddy installed new valve guides before?

Now, on to your dad. Does he have the tools to bore and hone the block? How will the block be cleaned? Since it's torn down, why do a half-*** job. All oil passages need to be thoroughly cleaned so that's hot tanking at a minimum so buh bye cam bearings. Is dad good at installing cam bearings? I don't even bother any more, i use a machine shop.

We can go on but hopefully you get it. The stock rebuild kits are the cheapest part of a proper rebuild.

If you just want more seat of the pants kick, change the rear gear ratio. Or, increase your budget if you want to do it correctly and build it to last.

 

I had my block and heads cooked and bead blasted. The machinist then bored the block to .030 over and decked the block and heads, he also installed the cam bearings. The machinist then ground the valves and installed them along with new guides and seals. All this machine work and a rebuild kit for a little over $1000. It was a steal I know. A LT4 hot cam kit(from SD Parts) cost around $560. With all that you could have a rebuilt motor for under $2000 including some surprises. My rebuild kit came with lifters and pistons(non forged) standard flow oil pump, bearings plus all the gaskets and seals you might need.
The hot cam kit is VERY complete. I think this is as radical of a cam as I would want to go on a DD.

 

for 2500 just get an ls1

 

Thank you for the comments. I knew I had missed some stuff...but I didn't think I would have missed that much. Ha. But it's always nice to learn. I was planning on using all new internals to do the rebuild, including items you guys have mentioned.

As far as I know on the friend, he has a whole machine shop, and has many restored '60s and '70s cars. I do not know all that he'd do too the heads. I do know that they'd probably need resurfaced. The valves I'd only buy new if it was necessary or preferred.

My father on the other hand, he has rebuilt engines before, so much, much more experience than myself. I believe he can do most of the work too the block...assuming it's not in too bad of shape. If it is indeed to the point it'd need bored, then I'd have someone do it for me.

Again though, I'll only be able to do this if I can find a vehicle for winter. If not, as much as I don't want too, the car will have to be run through the winter. I just wanted to do a rebuild to A: Get some learning experience from it and B: Know that everything in the engine is new and not worn out. Also, I don't want to do a stock rebuild but I don't want to like pro street it. Ha. Just something nice and mild.

What may end up doing is just start putting money away specifically for ground up rebuild and do it all at once. Because if I do it over the winter it's going to be parts here, parts there type thing.