If Not the LT4 Conversion Kit, what?
#1
03-06-2009, 04:55 PM
If Not the LT4 Conversion Kit, what?
So I recently bought a 1995 LT1 Z28 and am itching for more power already...I have done some reasearch on the LT1/LT4 Conversion kits and from what they claim about HP they sound pretty enticing, but reading some of the info that has been presented on hear, it may not be worth the $?!? I have checked out the link here on the site that references bolt on power adders and my car has a cold-air intake, and exhaust already. With that being said if the conversion kit isnt the way to go, or you can get more or comparable power for cheaper $ what is that route? thanks for your input!
#2
03-06-2009, 05:07 PM
The main problem with the lt4 conversion kit is that the claimed '425 crank horsepower' is under ideal circumstances. More often than not you'll only really see between 300 and 320 rwhp.
If you've got the money for the conversion kit, I'd suggest a port and polish on the stock heads, and a custom grind cam. That's what I'm doing, and I'm planning on 360+/370+ rwhp/rwtq. All that's gonna be through the stock torque converter, and the stock rear gears. You could very easily see 420+ rwhp with an aftermarket converter, and some shorter gears.
EDIT: For the heads, I'd suggest http://www.elliottsportworks.com/ or http://advancedinduction.com/
Personally, I'm going with Lloyd, since I'm not looking for an all-out strip bruiser. If that's what you want, I'd give AI a call.
If you've got the money for the conversion kit, I'd suggest a port and polish on the stock heads, and a custom grind cam. That's what I'm doing, and I'm planning on 360+/370+ rwhp/rwtq. All that's gonna be through the stock torque converter, and the stock rear gears. You could very easily see 420+ rwhp with an aftermarket converter, and some shorter gears.
EDIT: For the heads, I'd suggest http://www.elliottsportworks.com/ or http://advancedinduction.com/
Personally, I'm going with Lloyd, since I'm not looking for an all-out strip bruiser. If that's what you want, I'd give AI a call.
Last edited by robmnrd; 03-06-2009 at 05:09 PM.
#3
03-06-2009, 05:08 PM
first off...ISUcamaro better not be for iowa state...cause the cyclones are lame!
second...depends on your budget and plans for the car. i know it says you have exhaust, but do you mean a cat back or does it have headers on it? you're going to want headers for sure, preferrably a long tube matched to a y-pipe. if you're an auto you're going to want a higher stall torque converter since you will be adding a cam. third, gears are always a good add-on for a quicker launch. the TC and the gears won't add horsepower, but you will sure feel a difference.
next we move on to heads and cam. this is where budgets can quickly disappear. visit www.elliottsportworks.com or www.advancedinduction.com and look at what they do with LT1 cars...its actually really impressive. however, its kind of spendy. if you have more questions, just post them
second...depends on your budget and plans for the car. i know it says you have exhaust, but do you mean a cat back or does it have headers on it? you're going to want headers for sure, preferrably a long tube matched to a y-pipe. if you're an auto you're going to want a higher stall torque converter since you will be adding a cam. third, gears are always a good add-on for a quicker launch. the TC and the gears won't add horsepower, but you will sure feel a difference.
next we move on to heads and cam. this is where budgets can quickly disappear. visit www.elliottsportworks.com or www.advancedinduction.com and look at what they do with LT1 cars...its actually really impressive. however, its kind of spendy. if you have more questions, just post them
#4
03-06-2009, 11:22 PM
Thank you guys for your input its greatly appreciated...and yes the ISU stands for Iowa State and yea we are struggling on all fronts right now sadly...
But to the camaro, I have a 6-speed so according to you guys i shouldnt need a new torque converter...when I say exhaust I actually have no cats or muffler on it (the way it was when i purchased it) does that help or hinder with the increase HP im desiring?
In reference to the headers do you have a specific brand and model that matches your description? As loud as my car is now I cant imagine it much louder and im sure the headers will do that!!?? What kind of HP increase should you see with headers?
What does porting and polishing mean? How does that achieve increased HP and how much does that usually run?
Cams-seems like such a wide array and so many possibilities where does one even begin to start?? Does the "Hot cam" that is included in the LT4 conversion kit fit as a decent cam? Im looking for an aggressive street car that has the power when need be but not a drag car...
Finally, as an HP increase does one need to start worrying about beefing up on a clutch and rear-end to hold all the HP? Thanks again guys for your help as im for sure a rookie!!!
But to the camaro, I have a 6-speed so according to you guys i shouldnt need a new torque converter...when I say exhaust I actually have no cats or muffler on it (the way it was when i purchased it) does that help or hinder with the increase HP im desiring?
In reference to the headers do you have a specific brand and model that matches your description? As loud as my car is now I cant imagine it much louder and im sure the headers will do that!!?? What kind of HP increase should you see with headers?
What does porting and polishing mean? How does that achieve increased HP and how much does that usually run?
Cams-seems like such a wide array and so many possibilities where does one even begin to start?? Does the "Hot cam" that is included in the LT4 conversion kit fit as a decent cam? Im looking for an aggressive street car that has the power when need be but not a drag car...
Finally, as an HP increase does one need to start worrying about beefing up on a clutch and rear-end to hold all the HP? Thanks again guys for your help as im for sure a rookie!!!
#5
03-07-2009, 01:01 AM
I think anything from Iowa sucks and CU Boulder > * !!!
Onto the myriad of car questions:
Since you have a T56 (six-speed in our cars) you don't need to worry about a new torque converter. Right now you have what we consider "cat-back" exhaust, meaning you have not modified the exhaust manifolds or the Y-pipe. Your cat-back flows better than the stock muffler, thus it's increasing your HP, the more flow the better. You want to purchase and install some headers before you do any internal work to the engine though. I highly recommend Kooks if you have the money, they're a great header for street applications on an LT1. After that (I'm assuming you're making a street/strip car, not just a strip machine) I recommend Dynatech headers. You can get them off of www.summitracing.com and they're well priced. You will also need a Y-pipe. The Texas Speed and Performance (TSP) Y-pipe is 9 pieces, so you should be able to get it to fit just about anything, worse comes to worse you can get a Y-pipe fabbed up for you at a local exhaust shop. Headers and a new Y-pipe can get you 20 RWHP on an otherwise stock motor, so they're a good upgrade.
Porting and Polishing means someone (don't do it yourself please...) takes the stock heads from your LT1 and removes material in the necessary places (usually it enlarges the intake runners and exhaust runners as well as enlarges the valves), this is "porting." From here they will take the heads and smooth the runners and all necessary internal surfaces, thus promoting better flow, this is the "polishing." All in all it increases how much air the heads can flow and thus gives you more HP (are you seeing a pattern about increasing flow yet?).
Cams are a tricky business because there are so many of them. Ideally you want the cam matched to the displacement, heads, compression etc. This is why most of us recommend getting a head/cam package from Lloyd Elliott or personally I'm going to go with Dragon Race Engineering because they're local to me. The "LT4 Hotcam" is actually a relatively mild cam even for a street car. You can see a little HP increase out of it, and it will work with an otherwise stock motor, but the HP gains aren't worth the money. When you upgrade your cam you'll also want to consider upgrading your rockers. The stock stamped steel rockers will probably have trouble handling the lift on an aftermarket cam, so make sure you get full roller rockers.
As far as the rear-end and the clutch it all depends on how much power you're making. The stock rear end is known for being weak, but it's all about how you drive it, what tires you have etc. etc.
Onto the myriad of car questions:
Since you have a T56 (six-speed in our cars) you don't need to worry about a new torque converter. Right now you have what we consider "cat-back" exhaust, meaning you have not modified the exhaust manifolds or the Y-pipe. Your cat-back flows better than the stock muffler, thus it's increasing your HP, the more flow the better. You want to purchase and install some headers before you do any internal work to the engine though. I highly recommend Kooks if you have the money, they're a great header for street applications on an LT1. After that (I'm assuming you're making a street/strip car, not just a strip machine) I recommend Dynatech headers. You can get them off of www.summitracing.com and they're well priced. You will also need a Y-pipe. The Texas Speed and Performance (TSP) Y-pipe is 9 pieces, so you should be able to get it to fit just about anything, worse comes to worse you can get a Y-pipe fabbed up for you at a local exhaust shop. Headers and a new Y-pipe can get you 20 RWHP on an otherwise stock motor, so they're a good upgrade.
Porting and Polishing means someone (don't do it yourself please...) takes the stock heads from your LT1 and removes material in the necessary places (usually it enlarges the intake runners and exhaust runners as well as enlarges the valves), this is "porting." From here they will take the heads and smooth the runners and all necessary internal surfaces, thus promoting better flow, this is the "polishing." All in all it increases how much air the heads can flow and thus gives you more HP (are you seeing a pattern about increasing flow yet?).
Cams are a tricky business because there are so many of them. Ideally you want the cam matched to the displacement, heads, compression etc. This is why most of us recommend getting a head/cam package from Lloyd Elliott or personally I'm going to go with Dragon Race Engineering because they're local to me. The "LT4 Hotcam" is actually a relatively mild cam even for a street car. You can see a little HP increase out of it, and it will work with an otherwise stock motor, but the HP gains aren't worth the money. When you upgrade your cam you'll also want to consider upgrading your rockers. The stock stamped steel rockers will probably have trouble handling the lift on an aftermarket cam, so make sure you get full roller rockers.
As far as the rear-end and the clutch it all depends on how much power you're making. The stock rear end is known for being weak, but it's all about how you drive it, what tires you have etc. etc.
#6
03-07-2009, 09:00 AM
oh you son of a...
slvr pretty much hit everything right on the head. no torque converter for a 6 speed car. a good head/cam package from lloyd elliott will run anywhere from 1200-1700 depending on what you want out of the car. he will net you probably right around 400 rwhp when all is said and done. my job will cost a little more but i'll be having more cubes and will need more air flow for the larger cam i will be able to run.
slvr will hate me for saying some of this, but pacesetter makes a decent budget header. i run them and haven't had any problems. they wouldn't be my first choice but i'm not going to argue when i get them for free, haha.
and i was just messin with ya about the iowa state thing. i'm from iowa, been a hawkeye fan for years so i had to mess with ya. good to see another iowa boy!
slvr pretty much hit everything right on the head. no torque converter for a 6 speed car. a good head/cam package from lloyd elliott will run anywhere from 1200-1700 depending on what you want out of the car. he will net you probably right around 400 rwhp when all is said and done. my job will cost a little more but i'll be having more cubes and will need more air flow for the larger cam i will be able to run.
slvr will hate me for saying some of this, but pacesetter makes a decent budget header. i run them and haven't had any problems. they wouldn't be my first choice but i'm not going to argue when i get them for free, haha.
and i was just messin with ya about the iowa state thing. i'm from iowa, been a hawkeye fan for years so i had to mess with ya. good to see another iowa boy!
#7
03-07-2009, 11:26 AM
So if the headers are the first path to travel down, slvr, are these the dynatech headers you are speaking of from summittracing?...http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Can you enlighten to me the benefits of the Y-pipe compared to what type of exhaust is on there now? Secondly I love how loud and aggressive sounding the car is right now but with headers will I be able to keep my sanity without some type of muffler to quiet it down some? What kind of muffler would you recommend that dont quiet it too much but will give it some character?
This sounds like a good start pointing and isn't too spendy right now...then I can venture into the packages that you guys pointed me to on elliottsportworks.com. Thanks again fellas for your help
Can you enlighten to me the benefits of the Y-pipe compared to what type of exhaust is on there now? Secondly I love how loud and aggressive sounding the car is right now but with headers will I be able to keep my sanity without some type of muffler to quiet it down some? What kind of muffler would you recommend that dont quiet it too much but will give it some character?
This sounds like a good start pointing and isn't too spendy right now...then I can venture into the packages that you guys pointed me to on elliottsportworks.com. Thanks again fellas for your help
#8
03-07-2009, 12:50 PM
yes those are the headers he was describing to you.
the Y-pipe is just what comes off the stock manifolds and connects them to the pipe that would be called the "cat-back". when you put headers on, you will be doing essentially the same thing. you COULD use your stock y-pipe, but the stock y pipe is so restrictive that your performance would be severely hampered.
your car doesn't have a muffler at all? man...i'd almost just throw a magnaflow exhaust on there just so i know EXACTLY what it is that i'm working with. magnaflow has a pretty cool sound to it as well.
i'm sure slvr will elaborate more on what i said, but hopefully i gave you a pretty decent overview. if you go with dynatechs, you will be kind of a rare breed...i personally can't say i know anyone that runs them...so thats something you could say i guess, haha
the Y-pipe is just what comes off the stock manifolds and connects them to the pipe that would be called the "cat-back". when you put headers on, you will be doing essentially the same thing. you COULD use your stock y-pipe, but the stock y pipe is so restrictive that your performance would be severely hampered.
your car doesn't have a muffler at all? man...i'd almost just throw a magnaflow exhaust on there just so i know EXACTLY what it is that i'm working with. magnaflow has a pretty cool sound to it as well.
i'm sure slvr will elaborate more on what i said, but hopefully i gave you a pretty decent overview. if you go with dynatechs, you will be kind of a rare breed...i personally can't say i know anyone that runs them...so thats something you could say i guess, haha
#9
03-07-2009, 01:12 PM
With long tubes you actually can't run the stock Y-pipe, the driver side won't be able to match up with the header collector. You wouldn't want to drop $475 on headers and not get a new Y-pipe anyway, the stock Y-pipe is all compression bent and is very restrictive. You should look into getting this Y-pipe, you should be able to coerce it into working.
http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp...d=190&catid=45
As far as sound, if you click the link in my sig that's my car. I don't have a muffler, but I do have some resonator tips and cats which quiet the car down a bit. My car is about perfect in my opinion, it's pretty tame at idle (I can be inside my house and barely hear it idling), but when you get on it everyone within a 1/4 mile knows about it. Personally I love it. Putting headers on my car really didn't make it much louder, but it did make it sound much more aggressive and the sound got sharper. I would toss the headers on it, see what you think, and if you need to tone it down a bit look into some resonator tips.
And Wham, Pacesetter does make an ok budget header (I wouldn't complain if I got them for free either), but when you pay $50 more for Dynatech's I know which one I'd go for...
http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp...d=190&catid=45
As far as sound, if you click the link in my sig that's my car. I don't have a muffler, but I do have some resonator tips and cats which quiet the car down a bit. My car is about perfect in my opinion, it's pretty tame at idle (I can be inside my house and barely hear it idling), but when you get on it everyone within a 1/4 mile knows about it. Personally I love it. Putting headers on my car really didn't make it much louder, but it did make it sound much more aggressive and the sound got sharper. I would toss the headers on it, see what you think, and if you need to tone it down a bit look into some resonator tips.
And Wham, Pacesetter does make an ok budget header (I wouldn't complain if I got them for free either), but when you pay $50 more for Dynatech's I know which one I'd go for...
#10
03-07-2009, 01:14 PM
dangit guys.....
ok, last night was friday night. my head hurts. i dont wanna read a bunch of lt1 stuff from a cyclone guy (go hawks)
no but seriously. only thing i wanted to add.... did anyone tell rob yet that a torque converter and gears is not going to increase his hp numbers?
ok, last night was friday night. my head hurts. i dont wanna read a bunch of lt1 stuff from a cyclone guy (go hawks
)no but seriously. only thing i wanted to add.... did anyone tell rob yet that a torque converter and gears is not going to increase his hp numbers?