I may have posted this in the wrong area originally. My problem is that maybe once a month, I turn the key to the "start" position and nothing happens.

Rather than get all involved in this matter, I would like someone just to answer my questions.

1) where can I get the actual electrical diagram for the starting circuit for a 2002 V6 Camaro?

2) where is the "start relay" to energizes the starting motor located?

3) where is the TDR (Theft Deterrent Relay) located??

 

1. Buy a Haynes manual at your local parts store if not Amazon.com
2, 3, relay box, drvr fender well behind the headlamp.
Could be the tumbler, what the ign key fits into, may not be reading the key at the time of entry.
Therefore, the next action is no starter.
Next time nothing happens, restart with the same key after a min of three minutes.
If engine starts, good possibility the tumbler needs replacing.

Any GM dealer will sell you a tumbler and a new key after showing ownership of the Camaro, then pull the steering wheel, combo switch - be careful over pull and and switch wires will break - remove turn signal switch, remove two thin white wires from the steering column connector, tie a string to the wires, remove screw with a T25 Torx driver, pull out the tumbler with wires, and untie wires.
Tie new wires, pull string through column, attach new tumbler, reinstall other items removed - note how the combo switch wires were secured, install s/wheel, and should be good to go.
Or let the dealer, or a known good independent shop, install the new tumbler.

Some people install a resistor in the same two wires matching key resistance chip, or reprogram the PCM removing VATS. This route removes the anti-theft function.

Your choice, there are several ways to override VATS. Check the clouds/internet.

 

My three questions were not answered above. Instead, the topic spun off into another area.

My suggestion to people who reply is from my own experience. It is VERY FRUSTRATING to get a nonsense answer to a specific question.

About the Haynes manual, this does not show the exact electrical diagrams. It shows "typical" diagrams. There is more than one relay in this relay box. Somewhere is an exact layout of which relay is which.

I am hoping other Camaro websites can be more helpful.

 

The Haynes manual I have has the engine electrical schematic for every year, ie, 1994-1997 & 1998-2002, and CID of engine installed and your questions were answerd by the first two sentences of the reply post.

If you pull off the relay box cover, turn the over to read the inside, it will give the reader the position and name of the relay function within the box.

Answers given were from personal experience, VATS kills alot of action when it does not read a key. Just relaying this info as a FYI so you don't spend countless hours troubleshooting the cause of the no-start periodically symptom.

Could be other problems than just no key read, such as lack of dist reference.
Engine needs this feature for injector pulsing.
I'm sure others here have been where you are at now, and they would appreciate the info given from others' experiences.

 

How do answer a question when the question is about the location of a non-existing part?
There is no such thing as a start relay, the starter has solenoid it is mounted on top of the starter like it has been on every GM car since the 60’s. Your ignition switch energizes your solenoid.

No such thing as TDR, GM has a VAT (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) The Vats system supplies 5 volt signal to the PCM, no need for a relay. If the signal is not there the fuel injection system does not work.

GM manual PDFs are in the manual sections.

Do you want me to wait till you ask the right question or do you want me to tell you what is wrong with your car?

 

According to shbox.com and Haynes manual, the start command goes through ign sw through either shift linkage on AT or clutch sw on manual trans to the theft deterrent relay, aka, starter relay, as the other side of the relay is controlled by the BCM.
Once BCM is satisfied, it places a low on TD relay allowing it to close, then battery power goes through to solenoid for it to engage.

 

I always forget about the BCM..... Too many years on the 3rd gens.... I have seen this exact complaint no less then 20 times on work orders so far its always been same issue, old and new cars. Its kind of funny how many times it come through almost word for word. Maybe this one is different.

 

Hopefully so, maybe the OP will give some more info for us to help him.
Like I said earlier, my no-start experiences with others' vehicles has been the tumbler.
They ask how could it have worn out?
I reply how many times have you inserted /removed the key?
The two 'leaves' of the socket don't have much tension and they simply lose it.

 

I am going to make an assumption. That assumption is that there is an engineer or two reading this post. If you are an engineer, then the following sentence will make sense.

To find a problem and solve it, you have to prove you found the problem by duplicating the problem. Without being able to duplicate the problem, there is no proof you solved it.

That being said, I will repeat, I am not a "swapper". Swappers is what 95% of most car mechanics are. Swappers only keep the parts sellers in business and wallets empty.

About the VATS statement, this has been brought up in the above posts several times. I did not mention the VATS because it was bypassed many years ago on this vehicle. I bypassed the VATS after the dealer (swapper) swapped out the key tumbler, broke the wire to the VATS pickup unit, then tried to tell me he solved my starting problem by installing a new key switch.

So, forget the VATS system. This intermittent starting issue is very difficult to find. Until I am 100% sure I have solved it (by duplicating the problem) swapping is of no use to me.

I did need to clarify the term "Start Relay". In my manual, this is what the relay is called. I think the manual is referring to the "start solenoid" that is probably part of the starting motor itself.

Again, I am still searching for the TDR relay. On the Firebird website, one nice person describes the TDR relay as behind the radio. After I pulled the radio (2002 V6 Camaro), I do see a relay like he described. It has a large purple wire that "most likely" runs down to the Start Solenoid.

The reason I wanted the EXACT schematic for a 2002 Camaro is that the "typical" schematic in the Chilton manual for a 2002 Camaro does not match the wiring on my TDR relay.

The "typical" schematic shows 4 wires to the TDR relay. My actual TDR relay (that may or may not be the TDR relay) has 5 wires. Plus, the wire colors do not match the typical schematic.

I really could care how mad some may be at me. I will go back to my original request.

1) does anyone know FOR SURE where the TDR relay is located in a 2002 v6 Camaro?? 2002 year. Other years just don't match.

2) does anyone know where I can find the EXACT schematic for the start/charging system for a 2002 V6 Camaro?? Other years won't match.

 

The relay behind the radio with the purple wire is not the TDR relay. It's the high speed relay for the blower motor.

So far, I am an expert in what "is not" the TDR relay. Funny to me, anyway.....