LS3 Time- LS1 Grenaded at Road America :(
#41
07-12-2015, 12:12 AM
Will have to get back to you on those details...
Back to the trans discussion
The max performance 4L65E from FLP Trans has a few more goodies -- do you see much value in any of their upgrades I don't have, considering my new found 574 HP/532 TQ? I am using their list as a guide...
http://www.finishlinetrans.com/trans...rmance4L65.htm
I don't know the LSX motors but I did Dyno a lot of circle track cars back in the day. I think those Torque and HP curve look good. In fact they look way more streetable then what I use to seeing. Is that pump gas?
Do you get a copy of the tune they used? You have some limitation on what you can change on the curve due to Heads and Cam and to some extent intake but you can do a lot to tweak the curve with timing and fuel maping.
Do you get a copy of the tune they used? You have some limitation on what you can change on the curve due to Heads and Cam and to some extent intake but you can do a lot to tweak the curve with timing and fuel maping.
Back to the trans discussion
The max performance 4L65E from FLP Trans has a few more goodies -- do you see much value in any of their upgrades I don't have, considering my new found 574 HP/532 TQ? I am using their list as a guide... http://www.finishlinetrans.com/trans...rmance4L65.htm
#42
07-12-2015, 08:48 PM
Back to the trans discussion The max performance 4L65E from FLP Trans has a few more goodies -- do you see much value in any of their upgrades I don't have, considering my new found 574 HP/532 TQ? I am using their list as a guide...
http://www.finishlinetrans.com/trans...rmance4L65.htm
The max performance 4L65E from FLP Trans has a few more goodies -- do you see much value in any of their upgrades I don't have, considering my new found 574 HP/532 TQ? I am using their list as a guide... http://www.finishlinetrans.com/trans...rmance4L65.htm
Parts list is excellent!!!! The only real upgrade over what you have is the Smart Tech Input Drum w/ Billet shaft & a Billet output shaft....That I already covered as a possible weakness.
#43
07-13-2015, 05:23 PM
I don't know the LSX motors but I did Dyno a lot of circle track cars back in the day. I think those Torque and HP curve look good. In fact they look way more streetable then what I use to seeing. Is that pump gas?
Do you get a copy of the tune they used? You have some limitation on what you can change on the curve due to Heads and Cam and to some extent intake but you can do a lot to tweak the curve with timing and fuel maping.
Do you get a copy of the tune they used? You have some limitation on what you can change on the curve due to Heads and Cam and to some extent intake but you can do a lot to tweak the curve with timing and fuel maping.
On another note, I am being suggested to consider a bigger radiator & oil cooler as I am told the LS3s tend to run hot. Any suggestions for these? I know Improved Racing has an oil cooler kit which sounds good, but very pricey. I am planning to also add IR's crank scraper -- now would be the time to do so.
Shop photos of my build/install at Mueller Motorwerks:
Last edited by libertyforall1776; 07-15-2015 at 02:22 PM.
#44
07-17-2015, 09:06 PM
I would run.20/50 oil in it ,was suggested to me as my 406 runs warm too ,that oil; breaks down slower then .lighter oils, at first I thought it would be to thick but I get 60 to 70 lbs on the gauge an seems to love it ,I got a oil pan heater for cold starts .stp I use in the middle .of each .oil change to ,no oil cooler but I don't race mine ram air if you .don't have it ,high .powered fans for race cars, 4 core radiator
Last edited by 95 camaro 406; 07-17-2015 at 09:21 PM.
#45
07-19-2015, 09:18 PM
I have never had a LS3 "run hot". All LS engines are pretty easy to cool...comparatively speaking.
A LT1 radiator has a little thicker core, But has an extra port that needs to be plugged, The Plugs that come from the part stores are natural rubber & rot off.
A Be-Cool direct fit is a nice upgrade, Stay away from Griffen, They are glued together with Epoxy & failure prone.
An oil cooler is highly recommended when AutoCrossing any vehicle.
A LT1 radiator has a little thicker core, But has an extra port that needs to be plugged, The Plugs that come from the part stores are natural rubber & rot off.
A Be-Cool direct fit is a nice upgrade, Stay away from Griffen, They are glued together with Epoxy & failure prone.
An oil cooler is highly recommended when AutoCrossing any vehicle.
#46
07-28-2015, 12:08 PM
Yes, TMS recommends Valvoline VR-1 conventional 20-50w for the life of the motor. Are you running synthetic, a blend or conventional?
I don't think I could fit a 4 core, I went with the dual core BeCool 60246 radiator and plan to keep the stock dual electric fans in the near term -- hope it will be ok -- this unit will accept their high torque dual fan kit for the future, however. Improved Racing Crank Scraper and ATI 917242 Damper.
Thanks for the input. Still debating but likely will go with the Improved Racing Oil Cooler adapter (has a temp sensor port on it too!), but perhaps not their full kit.
Also looking into Autometer triple pod pillar gauges to monitor trans temps, oil temps, coolant temps. Any other important gauges I should consider? Wish they made dual gauges which fit those pillar pods... A better solution might be some iPhone gauge setup? Any good solutions on the market?
I don't think I could fit a 4 core, I went with the dual core BeCool 60246 radiator and plan to keep the stock dual electric fans in the near term -- hope it will be ok -- this unit will accept their high torque dual fan kit for the future, however. Improved Racing Crank Scraper and ATI 917242 Damper.
I would run.20/50 oil in it ,was suggested to me as my 406 runs warm too ,that oil; breaks down slower then .lighter oils, at first I thought it would be to thick but I get 60 to 70 lbs on the gauge an seems to love it ,I got a oil pan heater for cold starts .stp I use in the middle .of each .oil change to ,no oil cooler but I don't race mine ram air if you .don't have it ,high .powered fans for race cars, 4 core radiator
Thanks for the input. Still debating but likely will go with the Improved Racing Oil Cooler adapter (has a temp sensor port on it too!), but perhaps not their full kit.
Also looking into Autometer triple pod pillar gauges to monitor trans temps, oil temps, coolant temps. Any other important gauges I should consider? Wish they made dual gauges which fit those pillar pods... A better solution might be some iPhone gauge setup? Any good solutions on the market?
I have never had a LS3 "run hot". All LS engines are pretty easy to cool...comparatively speaking.
A LT1 radiator has a little thicker core, But has an extra port that needs to be plugged, The Plugs that come from the part stores are natural rubber & rot off.
A Be-Cool direct fit is a nice upgrade, Stay away from Griffen, They are glued together with Epoxy & failure prone.
An oil cooler is highly recommended when AutoCrossing any vehicle.
A LT1 radiator has a little thicker core, But has an extra port that needs to be plugged, The Plugs that come from the part stores are natural rubber & rot off.
A Be-Cool direct fit is a nice upgrade, Stay away from Griffen, They are glued together with Epoxy & failure prone.
An oil cooler is highly recommended when AutoCrossing any vehicle.
Last edited by libertyforall1776; 07-28-2015 at 12:19 PM.
#47
07-28-2015, 08:40 PM
20w50 is 1980's technology, This is not a Air Cooled Harley, Nor do you have a Flat Tappet cam that requires higher levels of ZDDP...VR-1 has a fair amount & is pretty Shear Stable. What VR-1 doesn't do well.....Is suspend acids & combustion by-products, etc. from everyday driving. It's a 500-1000 mile oil.
Your LS3 doesn't need anything thicker than a 40 Weight under any conditions. LS engine are easy on oil, If bearing clearances are correct....Going thicker will only make the Oil Pump work harder, Pressure VS Volume plays a big role here, Guys like to brag about their high oil pressure, But the Higher the pressure the LOWER the Volume that is being pumped through the oiling system.
I work on several Tracked Camaro's, Corvette's, G8's, GTO's, CTS-V's, & LS swapped Datsun Z-cars. I recommend Mobil 1 0w40 Euro in all of them, This a very robust oil, FAR better choice in your climate, And could run up to 5,000 miles with track use.
Your LS3 doesn't need anything thicker than a 40 Weight under any conditions. LS engine are easy on oil, If bearing clearances are correct....Going thicker will only make the Oil Pump work harder, Pressure VS Volume plays a big role here, Guys like to brag about their high oil pressure, But the Higher the pressure the LOWER the Volume that is being pumped through the oiling system.
I work on several Tracked Camaro's, Corvette's, G8's, GTO's, CTS-V's, & LS swapped Datsun Z-cars. I recommend Mobil 1 0w40 Euro in all of them, This a very robust oil, FAR better choice in your climate, And could run up to 5,000 miles with track use.
#48
07-29-2015, 11:36 AM
I am learning and trying to understand the best choice here, but here is the response from TMS on your input, no offense intended. They're only an hour or so from Ft. Worth -- you guys could have an interesting conversation...
"If he wants to stand behind the motor run his oil, Otherwise I strongly suggest you use the oil we have tested in thousands of motors. Anyone telling you to run 0w anything in an ls has little or no experience with the platform. Thin oil kills high output motors, We know this from building and testing over 2200 of them. We also work with places like SAM who is known as the foremost knowledgeable builder on the ls platform as they do not even build for the public instead only for extreme levels of private racing and GM testing. They are the ones who got us on to testing the VR1 oil and have helped us tremendously in R&D. Keep in mind, The information you recieve is worth exactly what you pay for it. We have a vested interest in making sure your motor stays together, Your air cooled harley expert does not. I can assure you that if you run the 0w oil in the motor and it comes apart he will not be there to help but instead to point the finger at TMS. If you use what we tell you and the motor comes apart we are here to help, This is what we do every day. It is not a hobby. We build more LS performance engines than anyone in the US, We do not do that not knowing what is best for them."
"If he wants to stand behind the motor run his oil, Otherwise I strongly suggest you use the oil we have tested in thousands of motors. Anyone telling you to run 0w anything in an ls has little or no experience with the platform. Thin oil kills high output motors, We know this from building and testing over 2200 of them. We also work with places like SAM who is known as the foremost knowledgeable builder on the ls platform as they do not even build for the public instead only for extreme levels of private racing and GM testing. They are the ones who got us on to testing the VR1 oil and have helped us tremendously in R&D. Keep in mind, The information you recieve is worth exactly what you pay for it. We have a vested interest in making sure your motor stays together, Your air cooled harley expert does not. I can assure you that if you run the 0w oil in the motor and it comes apart he will not be there to help but instead to point the finger at TMS. If you use what we tell you and the motor comes apart we are here to help, This is what we do every day. It is not a hobby. We build more LS performance engines than anyone in the US, We do not do that not knowing what is best for them."
20w50 is 1980's technology, This is not a Air Cooled Harley, Nor do you have a Flat Tappet cam that requires higher levels of ZDDP...VR-1 has a fair amount & is pretty Shear Stable. What VR-1 doesn't do well.....Is suspend acids & combustion by-products, etc. from everyday driving. It's a 500-1000 mile oil.
Your LS3 doesn't need anything thicker than a 40 Weight under any conditions. LS engine are easy on oil, If bearing clearances are correct....Going thicker will only make the Oil Pump work harder, Pressure VS Volume plays a big role here, Guys like to brag about their high oil pressure, But the Higher the pressure the LOWER the Volume that is being pumped through the oiling system.
I work on several Tracked Camaro's, Corvette's, G8's, GTO's, CTS-V's, & LS swapped Datsun Z-cars. I recommend Mobil 1 0w40 Euro in all of them, This a very robust oil, FAR better choice in your climate, And could run up to 5,000 miles with track use.
Your LS3 doesn't need anything thicker than a 40 Weight under any conditions. LS engine are easy on oil, If bearing clearances are correct....Going thicker will only make the Oil Pump work harder, Pressure VS Volume plays a big role here, Guys like to brag about their high oil pressure, But the Higher the pressure the LOWER the Volume that is being pumped through the oiling system.
I work on several Tracked Camaro's, Corvette's, G8's, GTO's, CTS-V's, & LS swapped Datsun Z-cars. I recommend Mobil 1 0w40 Euro in all of them, This a very robust oil, FAR better choice in your climate, And could run up to 5,000 miles with track use.
Last edited by libertyforall1776; 07-29-2015 at 11:38 AM.
#49
07-29-2015, 01:01 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tokeland, Washington
Posts: 21,641
looks like your stuck using that oil or you lose warranty. yep race engines need oil changed more often and are also rebuilt more often. gotta keep it in prime condition for the best time.
#50
08-01-2015, 12:07 AM
I am learning and trying to understand the best choice here, but here is the response from TMS on your input, no offense intended. They're only an hour or so from Ft. Worth -- you guys could have an interesting conversation...
"If he wants to stand behind the motor run his oil, Otherwise I strongly suggest you use the oil we have tested in thousands of motors. Anyone telling you to run 0w anything in an ls has little or no experience with the platform. Thin oil kills high output motors, We know this from building and testing over 2200 of them. We also work with places like SAM who is known as the foremost knowledgeable builder on the ls platform as they do not even build for the public instead only for extreme levels of private racing and GM testing. They are the ones who got us on to testing the VR1 oil and have helped us tremendously in R&D. Keep in mind, The information you recieve is worth exactly what you pay for it. We have a vested interest in making sure your motor stays together, Your air cooled harley expert does not. I can assure you that if you run the 0w oil in the motor and it comes apart he will not be there to help but instead to point the finger at TMS. If you use what we tell you and the motor comes apart we are here to help, This is what we do every day. It is not a hobby. We build more LS performance engines than anyone in the US, We do not do that not knowing what is best for them."
"If he wants to stand behind the motor run his oil, Otherwise I strongly suggest you use the oil we have tested in thousands of motors. Anyone telling you to run 0w anything in an ls has little or no experience with the platform. Thin oil kills high output motors, We know this from building and testing over 2200 of them. We also work with places like SAM who is known as the foremost knowledgeable builder on the ls platform as they do not even build for the public instead only for extreme levels of private racing and GM testing. They are the ones who got us on to testing the VR1 oil and have helped us tremendously in R&D. Keep in mind, The information you recieve is worth exactly what you pay for it. We have a vested interest in making sure your motor stays together, Your air cooled harley expert does not. I can assure you that if you run the 0w oil in the motor and it comes apart he will not be there to help but instead to point the finger at TMS. If you use what we tell you and the motor comes apart we are here to help, This is what we do every day. It is not a hobby. We build more LS performance engines than anyone in the US, We do not do that not knowing what is best for them."
I have thick skin, Doesn't bother me at all. But I will rebut......
0w40 is still a 40 weight at temperature, 40 weight is not a light oil....At least in my opinion.
To put it in perspective, Most Heavy Duty Diesel engines run a 40 weight, They have twice the compression & Rod Bearing loading found in any gasoline engine. Yes they run at a lower RPM......However the have huge journal diameters.....Bearing speed increases with larger journals. And they are Turbocharged & run near 80% of power most of the time.....For 500,000-800,000 miles before an overhaul. An apples to oranges comparison though.
He is worried about the Viscosity Index Improvers (VII), The More VII's, The more likely the oil is to shear down to a lower CST/Grade in service.
I fully understand his viewpoint, But oil technology marches on despite his stance on the subject.
A conventional 20w50 requires VII's to obtain the 20w rating, But not near as much as a conventional 5w30. A full synthetic 5w30 will require less VII's because the better base stock the oil is formulated from.
I am completely bewildered that he ONLY recommends Ashland/Valvoline VR-1 20w50 Racing oil for ALL his engine builds? Either he is set in his ways, Or is connected (Dealer/Sponsor) to Ashland in some way?
I guess you could put me as a Exxon/Mobil fanboy, Though the C5-R & C6-R race teams used Mobil 1 Synthetic oils in their engines at the 24 hours of Le-Mans & won quite a few times.
Shell Rotella T6 5w40
Mobil 1 TDT 5w40
Delvac 1 5w40
Amsoil 5w40
Redline 5w50
Mobil 1 5w50
Motul 5w50
Are all unacceptable as well?
What about 15w50 oils that are NOT Ashland Racing oils?
Is he taking in account you live in a cooler climate?