I have already deleted that last line. You can do this, one step at a time.

 

Whew yeah im sorry about the confusion. Ill just go ahead and delete that post quoting it too.

10 months ago I didnt know squat about this stuff and Ive got quite a few major jobs under my belt and these are the finishing touches on a job I will be so happy to say that I completely FULLY with all features and functions working as they should. This car was a literal piece of junk when I got her and maybe a swap like this was a little over my head maybe bit off more than I could chew.. but now shes running and driving great albeit no working gauges so this is the last step in a swap Ive been trying to do for months now. So Im making great strides for a guy who had no mechanical or technical knowledge less than a year ago. :P Its amazing what we can do when we really put our hearts and minds in something.

You and everyone else on this forum giving good advice gods to me!

 

What I would do is to print the pages with the diagrams for the instrument cluster for 98 and 00. Then compare them as best as you can. You can download them both here:
https://www.mediafire.com/?40mfgeoe4ctti

(oops had the wrong year)

 

Hey so I started messing with this. I have a few things I need clarification on.

My 98's C230 Pin D Tach Signal Wire.. it doesnt seem to have a matching wire on the 99-02. Or is the tach signal determined by some other means? The only other ones I can see regarding tach signal is the C105 Pin G Tach signal to brake control module but even that one DOES have a matching wire.

Also, C210 Pin A 5v Reference Feed on the 98. Is this the same as the C230 Pin A Grey 5v Feed on the 00? The pinout im reading lists the 00 one as "Grey 5v Feed (Fuel Tank pressure)" BUT i noticed that on my 98's "C210 Pin F DK GRN Fuel tank pressure sensor signal"

In fact, a number of the pin's for the fuel have me confused. My 98's list looks like this:

C210
A. GREY Reference voltage feed -5 volt reference
B. WHITE Cannister vent valve solenoid output
C. GREY Sensor return
D.
E. DK BLU Fuel guage sensor signal
F. DK GRN Fuel tank pressure sensor signal
G.
H. PURPLE Fuel guage sensor signal

But all those pins for the fuel gauge have been moved to C230 on the 00 but they are rather nondescript for the 98. My problem is that if Pin A 5v ref feed is actually the fuel tank pressure, then whats the Pin F Dk Grn Fuel tank pressure? Also, Dk Blu and Purple are both fuel gauge sensor signal?

Heres the 99-02 C230 stuff:

C230
A. GREY 5V Feed (Fuel tank pressure) (DIFFERENT)
B. BRN/WHT SES Indicator feed
C. WHITE EVAP Canister Vent Valve Control (DIFFERENT, C non existing in 98)
D. (EXIST ON 98 - Tach Signal)
E. DK BLUE Theft deterrant fuel enable feed
F. GRN/WHT A/C request signal
G. GREY Fuel Ground (DIFFERENT)
H. DK GRN Fuel Tank Pressure (DIFFERENT, H non existing in 98)
J. LT GRN Fuel Level Input (DIFFERENT)
K. PURPLE Output field service enable (Serial Data)

So basically, the tach signal, and those fuel gauge ones have me a bit confused but the rest are understandable. As always, thanks for your help

 

what I was thinking is cant the pcm be reprogramed ,or re flashed some say ,an or the pcm from 98,i am not much of an electrical guy either ,just a idea,but some good info hear ,computers love em hate em ,is the thing I like about pre pcm cars, when we took mine out I wondered what would work an what would not no problem with the lights ,just a new set tach water oil gauges speedo to come darn computers ,got to love them though

 

There is no individual Tach signal on the 99 or 2000 pcm. That comes from the Class 2 data signal. As long as you run a wire for the class 2 data to the cluster, it will take care of the RPM. In 98, the pcm had too much to do with driving the instruments, so the engineers put a "smart" module into the cluster that took care of those functions. Now the pcm just sends the RPM, fuel level, and engine temperature in simple numbers and lets the cluster handle driving the gauges. The MPH is a combined function, with the pcm driving the gauge directly only if the class 2 data transfer is not acknowledged, otherwise the class 2 data controls the gauge.

C210 A is the same as C230 A (5v ref)
C210 B is the same as C230 C (EVAP canister vent valve)
C210 C is the same as C230 G (ground)
C210 E will not be used (fuel gauge signal from pcm)
C210 F is the same as C230 H (tank pressure sensor)
C210 H is the same as C230 J

But this is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be more changes to make and some wires to add. The class2 data line for example has to be added from the cluster socket to the connectors on the passenger side. Either that or move one from a now-unused position.

I would seriously suggest that you get used to the method of removing the terminals in the cluster connector and the others, and also how to plug them into another position. The cluster connector just slides to the right out of the holder after pushing in the retainer tab on the left. Then use a small "needle" or small paper clip to push into the extra hole next to the terminal, while pushing in gently on the wire. That should release the terminal and allow you to pull it out with the wire attached. When installing them, make sure the protruding "tang" is on the same side as the extra hole.

Here is what has to be done just as a beginning to get the power connections right: Move the wires/terminals from pin B3 to pin B11, A1 to A3, and A13 to A10. When you need to remove a wire to open up a position for the moved wires, make sure to label it for the next set of steps. For example: A3 already has a wire (security indicator lamp) so make sure to label it "A3" when you remove it because it will be moved somewhere else later. Likewise, label "A10" when you remove it.

 

I started to get access to that cluster connector. I thought I was going to have to remove the whole dash to be able to properly access that connector behind the cluster but I have it unclipped and pushed back and now I just need to wiggle it down enough to be able to pull it out the bottom. I understand exactly what you are saying to do and I have all the wiring diagrams downloaded for reference.

Now this class 2 data serial line. Is this some kind of special type of wire I will need to buy? You said "move one from a now-unused position".. Im guessing this would be the more difficult option involving me pulling a wire thats likely going to be running completely behind the dash right? I can just run a new wire easy enough but if you think its not that difficult to use an existing one I wouldnt mind trying to fish one out.

I noticed that on both C105 connectors for both 98 and 00, Pin E Tan Wire says serial data. Also C230 Pin K Purple Wire is another serial data. Is repinning the actual "behind the cluster connector" going to take care of this or i will still need to run a wire even with the repinning? Is there a difference between the C230 Pin K purple wire between the 98 and 00 cars? The pinout I am looking at labels them both as Output Field Service Enable but only the 99-02 also notes that it is "serial data".

I have found some pictures of all the pins and now thats Im looking at it, Im starting to get a basic understanding of this. Boy its just kind of confusing trying to keep up with what is what and what goes where when theres so many wires to keep track of! Haha.. BUT this is a good thing. I know if I learn these concepts now.. that someday when I decide to do an LS swap into my LT1.. that Ill be glad I did.

Again, thank you so much for guiding me through this and clarifying things for me! There is simply NO way I couldve wrapped my head around the complexity of this on my own and I have no help whatsoever IRL. Im sure Ill more questions here in the next day or so

 

I now remember that you will probably have to cut the plastic to the right of the connector in order to get it out. Here is a photo.

The serial data wire can be the same type as the others. You can actually use the Tach signal white wire on pin B13 (move to B6) now because it will not be used. At the other end, the Tach signal wire goes to C230-D now and can be cut and moved to C230-K (splice/tap it into the existing gray wire there).

By the way, I am duplicating some of this effort in my 98. I have been waiting for a good time to troubleshoot my ECT gauge accuracy, and this is as good a time as any. I did have some trouble removing some pins from the cluster connector. I will try to determine the best technique.

 

funny thing with my 95 is the gas guage still worked an all my lights radio heat with no pcm just tach speedo water an volts gauges ,the guy was good with wich wires to pull ,an wich ones to not pull out for my much different swap

 

Ok so i had to dremel a big chunk of that plastic out because mine is solid on one of the squares immediately to the right of that connector but i got it out and im writing a list of all the changes in pins. I only have a few Im not sure about.

On the 98 side of it:
A14 - Red - Generator output indicator control - I cant find one that could potentially match up with this one at all..

B1 - Brown - Odometer illumination - I think this one might stay where it is because the corresponding 00 one is B1-BRN-Park lamp supply voltage

B2 - Grey - I/P illumination lamps feed - I think this one goes to B9-GRY-Instrument Panel Lamp Supply Voltage? Or do I have this one and the previous one here mixed?

Also on the 00 side, Im going to list the ones here I thought might have a sister connection that I noted up there just incase:

A13-Ppl/Wht-Instrument Panel Lamp Control

B5-Ppl/Wht-Starter Relay Coil Supply Voltage - Should anything go here?

B7-Orn/Blk-Trunk Lamp Control

B9-Gry-Instrument Panel Lamp Supply Voltage


I have all the rest of them figured out and Im happy to be making progress.

Edit: Now that I think of it.. I didnt know what I/P stood for but after typing this post it dawned on me. So that B2 must go to B9. *smacks head*

Edit2: GODDAMN HOW DO YOU GET THOSE ****ING PINS OUT ARGH.

Edit3: Nevermind, I figured out how to get them out easy enough lol. Boy that was obnoxious! haha

I also have one more question. A1 Pink and A5 Pink are both listed as "power feed from gages fuse 9" meaning they are basically the same wire?

Edit4: Well I have them all matched up on that cluster connector. The unused ones I left disconnected but if there is any reason for me to want to hook them in somewhere i can. I just have to do a few more connectors on the passenger side kick panel and Im going to try it out. Ill let you know how it goes.. fingers crossed! I checked and double checked and Im pretty sure Ive done it properly.

Edit 5: No luck. The cluster seems to be working pretty good but now the car wont start lol. click click click screams starter. I think its the B5 Starter enable coil something er other. I had nothing plugged into there and I dont see anything on the 99 harness that fits the bill. :\