I am the original owner of a beautiful 2002 Z28 w/120,000 miles. Earlier this week, I took my beloved Camaro to the dealer because the battery gauge was hovering around 9 vs the 13 or so it generally sits at. I thought maybe it was the alternator, but by the time I got to the Chevy dealer, it was back in the normal range and the Check Gauges light was off. I decided to have the oil changed anyway, when the service adviser thought there was nothing wrong with alternator/battery.
The engine was knocking a bit-as it's done for years. In the past, most mechanics shrugged it off since it's only an occasional noise. But the service adviser asked if I wanted it checked and I said ok.
Two hours later-I got THE CALL. The mechanic said, according to service adviser, the lifters had collapsed into the engine and needed replacing. He said it required 20 hours of labor + $1700 in parts. Total estimate -$4,200. I said no and he said not to drive it or I would ruin the engine.
Assuming this is a correct diagnosis, is replacing the lifters a job that I SHOULD have done at a dealer? Is it really huge and complex? Or do I search for a mechanic. This dealer replaced rear seal last year when no one else could identify or fix, so I have a slight trust in them.
Any advice would be welcomed...I am in Fort Lauderdale, FL area.

 

Depends on what noise you're hearing, a knocking/tapping or a ticking. It's not uncommon for the LS1 to make a "piston slap" (knock) noise until it starts to warm up. Because of the design of the piston, and being an aluminum block, the LS1 has larger clearances (when cold) than a conventional iron block engine has. If that knock noise goes away when warm (when everything expands), don't worry about it, that's considered "normal". If the noise is still there, it's possible you have lifter issues, but that's hard to diagnose over the internet. GM did issue a TSB, #01-06-01-023, covering engine noises and oil consumption. One issue causing an oil related engine tick can be a bad o-ring seal between the oil pump and pick up screen. What is your oil pressure reading on the gauge? Given the high cost they're throwing at you, you definitely need a second opinion.

 

Thanks so much for your insight. I've put a lot of money in the car and I don't mind paying for a good job, but 20 hours of labor makes me pause.
No, the engine does not tap or knock (it's not a ticking sound) when cold. It goes weeks without making the noise. Having said that, I don't drive it very far. Under 20 miles a week, typically, since Feb 2015.
But when it does knock, I don't see any decline in performance or misfiring or anything like that. The Service Engine light comes on occasionally and the codes do usually track back to the exhaust system however. It has not thrown a code since February, so I have not taken it to the dealer to be checked out.
I'm going to get a second opinion, but was hesitant to go to a mechanic vs a dealer.
But thanks so much for your response.
deb

 

Since the noise is so inconsistent, and sometimes non existent, I'd chalk up the noise as the car sitting too much. Could be the lifters are getting gummed up. Something more serious with the engine, and the noise wouldn't come and go like that, especially with an emphasis on go. If you're not already, put pure synthetic oil in the engine. Mobil 1 is my favorite. Synthetic can help to clean away varnish, sludge, or carbon deposits inside the engine, and quiet it down. It's worked for me.
So you know, an exhaust leak, say between the manifold and head, or at the donut gasket, can fool someone into thinking it's a lifter/engine noise, it sounds that similar. The dealer might not be fooled, but they could be trying to fool you.

 

AS a matter of fact, I had the oil changed in June 2015. In Sept. I brought it back for some additional work and they did not want to change the oil because I had only driven it 250 miles. From June 2015-May 16, I drove 760 miles (I know, I know...but in my defense I am afraid to drive it far). The knocking noise occurred before the oil was changed. After I turned down the $4200 estimate, I told them to change the oil anyway.
When I picked it up, the service guy remarked that it the oil was clear and probably did not need it because I had driven so few miles. I said yeah well, it's been a long time since the oil was changed and I don't see the down side.
I have not driven it anyplace, but I start it up every night since Monday. It sounds fine. Again, I am the original owner, so I know when it doesn't sound fine.
It's such a dilemma. Trust me when I tell you that it's left me sitting plenty of times in the last 5 years or so (I have GOLD AAA membership) and I am a bit gun shy about taking it far. But I'm thinking I'll jump on the Florida turnpike this weekend and see if doing over 70 has any effect.

 

I have a 2000 and mine has lifter tap and a cold piston slap. When I first bought the car there was a slight tapping sound from the lifter even when the car was warm. I used that to get the car cheap. Two mobil one oil changes and not the car is quiet warm but it taps cold. Maybe 3 minutes. I am starting to think I may need replace the lifters if I want it to go away 100%.

It is possible to have lifter issues that can hurt the motor BUT 95% of the time they will have very little effect on anything. If I replace my lifter it will be because they annoy me not because I am worried about the motor.

If you are using regular oil once a years oil changes are not enough. If you are using a synthetic oil its fine. Regular oil draws in moisture would will start to break down over time. My Z only had 45,000 miles on it last year when I bought it. The owner changed the oil every year when the car was inspected yet I was able to greatly reduce the lifter noise just by putting in clean oil and a 10 micon oil filter. If once a year was enough then cleaning the oil should have not have accomplished anything.

FYI lifter tap is very common. In most cases it is a pc of carbon stuck in the lifter pump. You don't need to go high speed you just need to let the demon out at about 5000 RPMs a couple of times with nice clean oil in it. You also want a 10-15 micron oil filter. I use mobil one filter and oil but there are a lot of good oils and filters out there.

Also, the hours and price are crazy, Go to a car show this weekend and ask around and find the best speed shop in town. I would bet you could get a upgraded Cam and intake which would include all new lifters for less then they quoted. I would expect entire new top end would be around 5-6K

 

Prior to Feb 2015, it was my only car and I used it like any other. Although he is long gone, my dad was an auto mechanic and I religiously changed the oil in the car every 3,000 miles. In Jan 2015 I was told by a mechanic that the "engine was blown" and it was not worth fixing. I did not believe him, but I DID buy a Sonic for daily use and let the Camaro sit for 2 mos. while I searched for a new mechanic.
I had some work done by the dealer and it's been running GREAT since then. I've had the knocking noise for years and this is the first time anyone suggested that I was harming the engine. I DO use synthetic oil and I regret that I did not bring it in for an oil change for so many months, even though I did not even go 1,000 miles. I called the dealer to get an oil change in December and they blew me off and said it was too soon.
It's hard to find someone to work on a car like this. I think they look at me and assume I know NOTHING. Well, okay, maybe that's 90% true. I do know my car and I know the basics and I know that 20 hours of labor is a joke.
Thanks so much for your input. I really appreciate that you took the time to comment.

 

Just keep in mind the LS1 is the bread and butter of todays speed shops. To the dealer it is just an old car. To a speed shop it is an original LS1. In 2002 the dealer would have known more about the LS1 but most dealers have a high turn around rate mechanic. I am sure they are fine on new cars but a speed shop that does LS motors is going to know a lot more. Maybe you have a real issue with your motor maybe not but you should find out from someone that repaired or upgraded 3 LS motors last week vs a young mechanic that has worked on 3 in the last year. The LS1 is not a motor that is normally worn out at 120k and the 02 did not have the oiling issues the early one had. I have seen high mile motors upgraded with a top end kit running 450 hp all day long.

It is important to hit the car scene and find out what people are saying about shops. There are some very bad "speed" shops out there and there are some gems.

 

That's my challenge. Finding someone who is trustworthy and experienced. For 4 years I had someone who was in his 50's and had his own collection of Camaro's and Vettes. But he had a falling out with the owner of the shop and disappeared. I live in South Florida and people come and go. Nobody is "from" here and many are running away from something/someone.
Whenever I see someone with a car like mine, I literally chase them down and ask them who works on their car. But so far, they all do their own work and look at me like I am hopeless.
I'll keep trying. I ordered this baby in 2002 and it was quite literally built to my specifications. There is no way in hell I'd ever sell it and the thought of anyone but me driving makes me sick. I'll find someone to work on it and if the days comes where someone reliable tells me the engine is not salvageable, I'd consider getting a new one. I priced it last year and it wasn't that bad--all things considered.
I'm grateful for your advice and I am going to keep looking until I find someone who has experience on the engine.

 

if you can, get a recording of the noise and post it.