'91 Camaro Idles Rough; Dies; Won't Start -- WHAT ELSE IS NEW?

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Old 05-15-2011, 12:13 AM
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Unhappy '91 Camaro Idles Rough; Dies; Won't Start -- WHAT ELSE IS NEW?

I know it's probably vexatious to create more than one thread per day on a car forum, but I'm very desperate to fix my 1991 Camaro RS convertible. There are too many beautiful sunsets I can't enjoy with the top down, and too many errands I'm having to run in my dad's interior-cluttered Chevy Suburban.

I don't know if you remember this thread, but it's not the first nor the last type of thread on the internets that will be written about the problematic V6 3.1L engines that are found in '89-'92 Camaros:

https://camaroforums.com/forum/v6-te...ly-idle-53128/

I concluded the thread with an exposition from my radio show talking about how my Camaro was fixed.

Which I want to put in writing for the sake of this thread. Let me talk about how my troubles got started:

I was driving back from Arkansas to Claremore, Oklahoma on about a 150-mile trip. At about 100 miles into it, my car starts to lose horsepower and dies on the side of the road. It turns out the engine coolant nipple extending out of the intake manifold is cracked. That's why the car died.

However, after that's replaced, it won't start up. It idles rough and then dies. Because I was found on the side of the road and helped by benevolent strangers, they took it to their mechanic friend where he had it for two months. Here's what the mechanic claimed he did:

*Replaced the fuel pump

*Fuel pressure regulator

*ECM

*Oxygen Sensor

*Injectors


And I don't know what farking around with my Flowmaster dual exhaust muffler had to do with anything, but he did. He and his muffler shop buddy stole my Flowmaster muffler for God knows what reason. I hope they made enough money off of it to buy a frankfurter. Anyway, whatever. It shouldn't have been touched. But that's another story.

About three weeks later, I was home in Fort Smith, Arkansas, when on October 21st, 2010, my Camaro was idling rough and then died at an intersection. I couldn't get it to start. Thankfully, I got one of my dad's friends, who is a mechanic, to tow the piece to his shop where he worked on it for the next two months.

Mack is both more competent and more honest than that goniff up in Claremore. That's number one. So he didn't bother with what Schmucko claimed he fixed. Instead, Mack did the following:

*Re-secured the ground wire straps and added more.

That only took a week or so, compared to the two months Schmucko had my car and stole my Flowmaster muffler. Anyway, so, as I go to pick the car up and drive it home, the Camaro bucks and runs rough on the Interstate and dies on the side of the road. Mack comes back with the tow truck and takes it back to his shop AT NO CHARGE.

Mack gets back to work on the Camaro and concludes that the problem stems from the PROM that goes in the ECM or something to that effect. I had to track down the PROM to a Camaro/Firebird superstore in Oklahoma City and have them ship the part to Mack.

Is anybody still reading, or they clicked away to look up Ertl models of their cars on eBay? Let's recap:

*Idles rough, dies on the side of the road with a cracked coolant nipple in the intake manifold. Does not start.

*Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, oxygen sensor, ECM, injectors, and PROM are replaced. Ground wire straps are replaced or added.



Now let's speed the tape up to January 2011. I leave for a media internship in Washington, D.C. and don't take my car with me. Why should I? So I can pay $150 for parking and worry some jealous cretin will carve up the convertible top? I leave the Camaro. It sits for five months, only being driven probably once a month by my father.

As I back the car out of the driveway upon my return from D.C. to go run an errand, the piece dies. I crank the engine about five times with no success. Finally, it starts up and drives fine.

As I am driving it to Claremore, it begins to run rough and dies as I'm going highway speeds. I put it in neutral and fire it up. I have to do this about three times to make it to Claremore.

In Claremore, on the night of my graduation, as I fire the thing up, it idles rough. I let it idle for a bit before putting it into gear. As I reach a stoplight, it idles rough and dies. It does not start up. I get the engine to come back on after sitting at a stoplight looking like a putz with my top down, and I drive it 100 feet before the engine dies and I roll into a gas station.

I won't bore you with any more tedious details or expostulations. Just make believe we got back from a commercial break and the piece is back at my dad's place in Arkansas. After running some diagnostics, here's what we know:

*It's not the fuel filter because we changed it; no change.

*It's not the fuel pump because we checked it at the fuel check port.

* After pulling the MAP sensor plug and shooting it with contact cleaner, it would idle as though it was running on 1 or 2 cylinders and would only idle. If you touched the gas, it died.

*Checked the coil with an ohm meter and it appeared to be fine.

*The fuel pressure regulator only goes on the high side and not the low side. It does not pinch it off; it opens it up. The fuel pressure is on the high side.

*Pulled the injectors. Two of them read less than 8.0; two of them read at 11.3; two of them read at 12.3.



So what do you guys think? What could it be? I mean, I've got a suspicion as to what it is. If you go back to the original thread at the top of the page, you'll notice CajunDude and the other guy replaced the injectors and things perked up. Also, there's a thread from another forum linked up in that thread where a couple of guys mention replacing the injectors cures the problem. Bingo.

What should the injectors read on the ohm meter? And if they are to be replaced, what kind should I get and what do they look like? In other words, what am I looking for at a junk yard or on the internets? Maybe I'm tired of spending high dollar for crap that doesn't work.

And if somebody believes it isn't the injectors, I'm willing to listen to that viewpoint. I'm not out to sell a solution to the problem; I'm out to fix the problem by any means necessary.

So there it is. What do you guys think about that?
 
  #2  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:43 AM
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send the injectors off to a injector shop and have them cleaned and flow tested. cost is minimal. like 25 bucks. have you had it scanned for trouble codes?
 

Last edited by craby; 05-15-2011 at 09:50 AM.
  #3  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by craby
send the injectors off to a injector shop and have them cleaned and flow tested. cost is minimal. like 25 bucks. have you had it scanned for trouble codes?
My dad and I didn't do that. I was able to convince him the injectors were the problem, so he went along with me. (He's the old car guy and I'm really more adept with computers.)

Anyway, one of his ol' boys had a 1990 Camaro RS V6 3.1L sitting around in his scrap yard. My dad and I went and tested the injectors off of that car with an ohm meter, and they all hit 12.5, which is the optimal range for performance. All of the injectors tested out at 12.5, which is what they're supposed to do. You can't have even one injector that's at <12.0 or >12.9.

We put them in, gave it a little starter fluid, and it fired right up. We ran it up to 3,000 RPMs. We idled it at 2,000 RPMs. We let it idle. It was fine. After we shut it off, about five minutes later, I fired it up and it was fine. No problem.

If James Carville were fixing these cars, he'd tell you, "It's the injectors, stupid." And it's true. I'd like to smack everyone in the face on those Yahoo Q&A pages or WikiLeaks pages or whatever that always asks, "Is it your fuel pump/filter/regulator?" They're as wrong as Hell. With a 1990-92 Camaro V6 3.1L, it's INVARIABLY the injectors. Try those out first, then try the other crap. That's what I say.
 
  #4  
Old 05-21-2011, 09:47 PM
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Anything under 12 ohms is not good. I had one at 4.6 ohms and I could only get my car to run for about 2 seconds before it died.
I replaced them with some remanufactured Bosch injectors from SouthBay that were $22 apiece. I just got mine running today after sitting for 6 months.

I'm with ya on testing them first too. I wish I would have pulled the top of the intake 6 months ago to test them all with a multimeter.
 
  #5  
Old 10-12-2011, 02:14 PM
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I would imagine that by now that you have your car fixed. But I agree with the rest. Normal resistance for the injectors is 11.5 to 12.5 omes. If even 1 of them is higher or lower the ECM will shut them all down as they are all on a series circuit. Dont replace them with aftermarket crap either. I've read of people installing Venom injectors only to run into the same problem on down the road. I beleive I made a post about the same problem with my RS last November, and you'll find that there are several other posts of the same. It's really the only problem I've ever seen with the 3.1, it's just agrivating because it's the last thing you would suspect. I wish you many sunny days with the top down
 
  #6  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:08 PM
Join Date: May 2011
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Originally Posted by The Emperor
I know it's probably vexatious to create more than one thread per day on a car forum, but I'm very desperate to fix my 1991 Camaro RS convertible. There are too many beautiful sunsets I can't enjoy with the top down, and too many errands I'm having to run in my dad's interior-cluttered Chevy Suburban.

I don't know if you remember this thread, but it's not the first nor the last type of thread on the internets that will be written about the problematic V6 3.1L engines that are found in '89-'92 Camaros:

https://camaroforums.com/forum/v6-te...ly-idle-53128/

I concluded the thread with an exposition from my radio show talking about how my Camaro was fixed.

Which I want to put in writing for the sake of this thread. Let me talk about how my troubles got started:

I was driving back from Arkansas to Claremore, Oklahoma on about a 150-mile trip. At about 100 miles into it, my car starts to lose horsepower and dies on the side of the road. It turns out the engine coolant nipple extending out of the intake manifold is cracked. That's why the car died.

However, after that's replaced, it won't start up. It idles rough and then dies. Because I was found on the side of the road and helped by benevolent strangers, they took it to their mechanic friend where he had it for two months. Here's what the mechanic claimed he did:

*Replaced the fuel pump

*Fuel pressure regulator

*ECM

*Oxygen Sensor

*Injectors


And I don't know what farking around with my Flowmaster dual exhaust muffler had to do with anything, but he did. He and his muffler shop buddy stole my Flowmaster muffler for God knows what reason. I hope they made enough money off of it to buy a frankfurter. Anyway, whatever. It shouldn't have been touched. But that's another story.

About three weeks later, I was home in Fort Smith, Arkansas, when on October 21st, 2010, my Camaro was idling rough and then died at an intersection. I couldn't get it to start. Thankfully, I got one of my dad's friends, who is a mechanic, to tow the piece to his shop where he worked on it for the next two months.

Mack is both more competent and more honest than that goniff up in Claremore. That's number one. So he didn't bother with what Schmucko claimed he fixed. Instead, Mack did the following:

*Re-secured the ground wire straps and added more.

That only took a week or so, compared to the two months Schmucko had my car and stole my Flowmaster muffler. Anyway, so, as I go to pick the car up and drive it home, the Camaro bucks and runs rough on the Interstate and dies on the side of the road. Mack comes back with the tow truck and takes it back to his shop AT NO CHARGE.

Mack gets back to work on the Camaro and concludes that the problem stems from the PROM that goes in the ECM or something to that effect. I had to track down the PROM to a Camaro/Firebird superstore in Oklahoma City and have them ship the part to Mack.

Is anybody still reading, or they clicked away to look up Ertl models of their cars on eBay? Let's recap:

*Idles rough, dies on the side of the road with a cracked coolant nipple in the intake manifold. Does not start.

*Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, oxygen sensor, ECM, injectors, and PROM are replaced. Ground wire straps are replaced or added.



Now let's speed the tape up to January 2011. I leave for a media internship in Washington, D.C. and don't take my car with me. Why should I? So I can pay $150 for parking and worry some jealous cretin will carve up the convertible top? I leave the Camaro. It sits for five months, only being driven probably once a month by my father.

As I back the car out of the driveway upon my return from D.C. to go run an errand, the piece dies. I crank the engine about five times with no success. Finally, it starts up and drives fine.

As I am driving it to Claremore, it begins to run rough and dies as I'm going highway speeds. I put it in neutral and fire it up. I have to do this about three times to make it to Claremore.

In Claremore, on the night of my graduation, as I fire the thing up, it idles rough. I let it idle for a bit before putting it into gear. As I reach a stoplight, it idles rough and dies. It does not start up. I get the engine to come back on after sitting at a stoplight looking like a putz with my top down, and I drive it 100 feet before the engine dies and I roll into a gas station.

I won't bore you with any more tedious details or expostulations. Just make believe we got back from a commercial break and the piece is back at my dad's place in Arkansas. After running some diagnostics, here's what we know:

*It's not the fuel filter because we changed it; no change.

*It's not the fuel pump because we checked it at the fuel check port.

* After pulling the MAP sensor plug and shooting it with contact cleaner, it would idle as though it was running on 1 or 2 cylinders and would only idle. If you touched the gas, it died.

*Checked the coil with an ohm meter and it appeared to be fine.

*The fuel pressure regulator only goes on the high side and not the low side. It does not pinch it off; it opens it up. The fuel pressure is on the high side.

*Pulled the injectors. Two of them read less than 8.0; two of them read at 11.3; two of them read at 12.3.



So what do you guys think? What could it be? I mean, I've got a suspicion as to what it is. If you go back to the original thread at the top of the page, you'll notice CajunDude and the other guy replaced the injectors and things perked up. Also, there's a thread from another forum linked up in that thread where a couple of guys mention replacing the injectors cures the problem. Bingo.

What should the injectors read on the ohm meter? And if they are to be replaced, what kind should I get and what do they look like? In other words, what am I looking for at a junk yard or on the internets? Maybe I'm tired of spending high dollar for crap that doesn't work.

And if somebody believes it isn't the injectors, I'm willing to listen to that viewpoint. I'm not out to sell a solution to the problem; I'm out to fix the problem by any means necessary.

So there it is. What do you guys think about that?
Makes me wonder if you over heated it bye running low on coolant. if not the case, have you thought of checking your ignitions components?
 

Last edited by darkdesirecamaroman; 10-27-2011 at 12:18 PM. Reason: to makes sure the quote was a quote
  #7  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:57 PM
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anything under 10 is failing. you can get used injectors from an injector shop that have been cleaned and flow tested for a good price. could also have yours cleaned and flow tested for less than that. i would not advice using wrecking yard injectors that have not been cleaned and flow tested. dont know what you have if you dont.
 
  #8  
Old 11-18-2011, 11:22 AM
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I had the same problem with my 91 camaro it would turn of on a intersection I I had to turn it back on I changed spark plugs dey were bad and spark plug cable Oil change ect. And I bought it like that the guy I bought it from sold it for cheap so I couldnt resist the offer so now it runs good it still has life to it. But now wen I drive for 10 miles in head to a stop my car hesitates and wants to shut off and when it does this my battery volt gauge moves down then up and idk whats makIng do this. And when I turn it off and try to turn it back on it won't start engine won't move so I wait for 5 mins and it's back on can it be my starter blow out or my ignition is f'd up ??
 
  #9  
Old 11-19-2011, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Riosrs91
I had the same problem with my 91 camaro it would turn of on a intersection I I had to turn it back on I changed spark plugs dey were bad and spark plug cable Oil change ect. And I bought it like that the guy I bought it from sold it for cheap so I couldnt resist the offer so now it runs good it still has life to it. But now wen I drive for 10 miles in head to a stop my car hesitates and wants to shut off and when it does this my battery volt gauge moves down then up and idk whats makIng do this. And when I turn it off and try to turn it back on it won't start engine won't move so I wait for 5 mins and it's back on can it be my starter blow out or my ignition is f'd up ??

Assuming that the engine is turning over when you try to restart it, I would suggest the problem to be the injectors. Mine did the same thing. It would stall and if I waited a bit it would start again. Whats happening is that the injectors resistance is incorrect and as they heat up that resistance changes, causing the computer to shut them all down because they are all on one circuit. When they cool down the resistance may go back in range. Its probably just 1 or 2 injector but the best bet is to replace them all and as I said before do NOT replace them with "high performance" aftermarket parts, you will just run into the same problem.
 
  #10  
Old 12-10-2011, 04:25 PM
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ok idont have a fuel prob. my prob started with low or no oil pressure changed oil pressure switch. it cranked up with 70 oil pressurre idled fine running in park and drive for the 30 mins i had it running.decided to change oil while i had it jacked up. did so now it wont fire up. it will turn over all day but wont crank.ps getting plenty of gas and fire also when its turning over oil pressure holds steady at 65.why wont it crank
 


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