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Old 10-21-2012, 08:28 PM
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Default No brake pedal, not air in the system or master cylinder

Hey everyone new here but not new to forums so let me start off by saying I have searched all over for the answer and my dad has even called a few people for help with no avail. We just finished putting in a motor and trans into our 69 camaro father son project and finally got it started after 4 years of sitting around. We knew we had a soft brake pedal but figured all it needed was a bleed since we replaced the lines with stainless steel ones and such. Now after 4 master cylinders (all bench bled) and a new splitter valve and countless bleedings we still have no pedal at all. When we bleed the brakes the pedal will go down and feel like its hit the floor but then when its opened will travel another inch. Now I know this would be normal if the pedal was getting firmer but it isn't. I am at a complete loss right now for what would be the next step. The rear drums are also adjusted correctly so before someone suggests that.

Thanks for any help it wil be greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:46 PM
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Back 4 years when you were driving the car, was the brake pedal firm like it should be? Has anything else with the brakes been upgraded since (front drum to disc, etc)? Is this manual or power brakes?
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:03 PM
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the brakes worked fine never had a problem stopping. Came with disks in the front and drums in the rear and power brakes.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:35 PM
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You might want to pop off your brake drums and make sure you don't have a leaky wheel cylinder. Check your front calipers for leaks too. Never know, after sitting for a number of years, one of them could have developed some internal rust, which can cause a leak. Also, a caliper could have an internal leak where it can't hold pressure, and not show a leak externally. You have nice new braided hoses now, but another thing you could try is pinching one hose at a time with a vice grips and see if one of them gives you a firmer pedal. The pinched off caliper or wheel cylinder that makes a difference for the better would be the bad one.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:23 AM
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I have only bled brakes a couple times but did you make sure that you didnt bleed the master down too low each time you fill it up? It could be something as simple as letting the level go down and introducing air into the system during the bleeding process. Might be worth while going and buying a one gallon jug of brake fluid and trying to bleed the whole system over again. I am in no way telling you that you dont know what your doing its just something i ran into while bleeding out my toyota. Also, when you crack your bleeder screw on your brakes does it pump out fluid each time you pump the peddle?

I dont know if all brake fluids are the same color but you could try and find a different colored fluid so that you know when you have completely flushed the line. In my mind there is no way that you had the bad luck of trying 4 busted masters.

Also check every fitting in the brake line system, typically you would develop a leak rather then sucking in air because the system is pressurized but you never know.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:25 AM
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Also can you get a firm peddle when you pump the brakes several times with all your connections done up tight? Even if you have to do it 20 times, can you get a solid peddle at all?
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro 69 View Post
You might want to pop off your brake drums and make sure you don't have a leaky wheel cylinder. Check your front calipers for leaks too. Never know, after sitting for a number of years, one of them could have developed some internal rust, which can cause a leak. Also, a caliper could have an internal leak where it can't hold pressure, and not show a leak externally. You have nice new braided hoses now, but another thing you could try is pinching one hose at a time with a vice grips and see if one of them gives you a firmer pedal. The pinched off caliper or wheel cylinder that makes a difference for the better would be the bad one.
thats a great idea ill give that a shot tonight and see.

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Originally Posted by Sudstoy View Post
I have only bled brakes a couple times but did you make sure that you didnt bleed the master down too low each time you fill it up? It could be something as simple as letting the level go down and introducing air into the system during the bleeding process. Might be worth while going and buying a one gallon jug of brake fluid and trying to bleed the whole system over again. I am in no way telling you that you dont know what your doing its just something i ran into while bleeding out my toyota. Also, when you crack your bleeder screw on your brakes does it pump out fluid each time you pump the peddle?

I dont know if all brake fluids are the same color but you could try and find a different colored fluid so that you know when you have completely flushed the line. In my mind there is no way that you had the bad luck of trying 4 busted masters.

Also check every fitting in the brake line system, typically you would develop a leak rather then sucking in air because the system is pressurized but you never know.
appreciate the suggestion as i have made that mistake before but no we are very careful to make sure its not running dry. All the fittings are nice and tight. we put a small vacum on it and it held. we have put about a gallon of brake fluid through and its new stuff coming out for a while now.

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Also can you get a firm peddle when you pump the brakes several times with all your connections done up tight? Even if you have to do it 20 times, can you get a solid peddle at all?
no firm pedal at all. we have the front calipers flipped to make sure we have all the air geting out with blocks of wood in between also. forgot to mention that
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:14 AM
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I had the same problem. What I found was that the left/right calipers are identical except for the location of the bleeder valve. The bleeder valve should be on the top of the caliper's oil chamber. If you put them on the opposite wheel, the valve is on the bottom. When the valve is on the bottom, you can't get the air out of the top of the chamber by using standard bleeding methods. Hope this helps.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:40 AM
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I had the same problem. What I found was that the left/right calipers are identical except for the location of the bleeder valve. The bleeder valve should be on the top of the caliper's oil chamber. If you put them on the opposite wheel, the valve is on the bottom. When the valve is on the bottom, you can't get the air out of the top of the chamber by using standard bleeding methods. Hope this helps.
we actually must have them switched because we have them both wire tied upside down right now so the bleeder is on top. we will switch it tonight while we try the clamping of the lines to see. thanks for the reply
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:36 AM
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so ended up getting home real late from school and got a test tonight so trying those thing will unfortunately need to be put on hold till wednesday. maybe tonight if i get done with my test early enough.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:36 AM
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67, 69, bench, bled, bleed, brake, brakes, camaro, disk, feel, fluid, glenns, master, pedal, power, rear, solid, splitter, spongy

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